The sooner these guys leave Durban the better for all in Durban, and better for fishing.
Heard a similar story...There is some story that its part of a family and some agreement with the council?? and the building they use is not part of the club I am told.
What is the history behind the Seine Netters and why does the DSBC have this affiliation with them?
The sooner these guys leave Durban the better for all in Durban, and better for fishing.
Agreed Mike, what really grinds me is that the DSBC accommodates them...
how do i send a pmClick on this Icon under the persons name
cool thanx donew;k
Someone in Kzn must find a conservation minded reporter and see if they will look into it. The sooner that this gets exposed the better. If the DSBC is part of this, they should be brought into the light and shown for their part in this. I swear if I was not in CT, I'd gladly get onto it. Ask the department of fisheries to look into it, someone must do something. If the DSBC have any involvement in this at all, the head of that club should be held accountable.:+ cred: Robin well said :resp: (clap)
Someone in Kzn must find a conservation minded reporter and see if they will look into it. The sooner that this gets exposed the better. If the DSBC is part of this, they should be brought into the light and shown for their part in this. I swear if I was not in CT, I'd gladly get onto it. Ask the department of fisheries to look into it, someone must do something. If the DSBC have any involvement in this at all, the head of that club should be held accountable.
:+ cred:Someone in Kzn must find a conservation minded reporter and see if they will look into it. The sooner that this gets exposed the better. If the DSBC is part of this, they should be brought into the light and shown for their part in this. I swear if I was not in CT, I'd gladly get onto it. Ask the department of fisheries to look into it, someone must do something. If the DSBC have any involvement in this at all, the head of that club should be held accountable.
Calm down a bit their bud. The club has nothing to do with this story. They just so happen to be close to one another and you go thru the same gate to get to the two of them. Before I forget you go thru the same gate to get to DUC and PYT . The club is now being mentioned just because they next to each other and that IS NOT RIGHT.
The matter of the netters has been tackled before many times and they still their. This matter has been taken to the so called right people before. And if they are doing something I dont know.
The bottom line is, and I think this is what Robin is getting at, is people need to start taking responsibility for these "poachers" and taking matters into their own hands, the days are gone where we as anglers, clubs, committees etc. can sit back and just rely on others to sort it out. Is there nothing the Club can do towards helping exterminate these guys? You all must have a lot of power and say in matters, so is there no way you could all club together and try resolve these issues or contact people and sit on them, who have the power to sort these guys out?
The more this happens the more reason SACRAA has for their case to put a temporary ban on recreational angling and I am sure I speak for every member on this forum when I say I dont want recreational angling banned for any amount of time because these damn poachers and other ignorant anglers cant take responsibility or dont have any sort of compassion towards other anglers.
I presume this is the beach seine - ie set and retrieved from the beach, possibly assisted by a boat.
If so it is legal and forms part of the small scale fishery policy administered by DAFF.
There are a limited number of these licence holders around the coast - they are historical fisherman and have been fishing this way long before rod and reel - hence the rights allocation.
Before we all jump up and down, what other jobs and income would you give them - in other words how much would you pay for the license (PDI only). I know that one trek licence (they cannot change hands without DAFF approval anyway)was estimated at a perpetual value of ZAR20M.
If this is an illegal set, then I presume incorrectly. However, one would imagine DSBC would be on top of things.
Everyime members of the club said or try to do anything to the seince netters,they use the race cards and then say the rich white are picking on them....
Best way is to boycot them and dont support them. By not buying bait from them at all. Sure a few tackle shop buy from them...
I am sure the club could put pressure on them if need be, they share the same launch therefore are assumed to be part of the club, The tractor drivers see what is happening every day and need to report this to the office where they can contact the anti poaching line. If there is a will there is a way. I approched the main guy once and he told me to F off and not interfere as it had nothing to do with me.
Luke, they generally target surface fish or anything that they can net in a shallow area. They carry a very long net, horizontally speaking. When they find a shoal of fish, they drop the beginning of this long net and they essentially continue dropping the net as they ride, encircling the shoal. They then draw the net in and massacre everything. Then there is the 'trek netters'. Similar, but done from a beach. They 'launch the net behind the waves, and then draw this massive, long net toward the beach. And again, massacre everything. There is a lot of talk that they have played a major role in the critical status of the White Steenbras.
If I got anything wrong, I apologise, feel free to correct please.
The Cape Town beach seiners i have to say do not massacre everything....
Recently i think in total they caught 16 bronzies in the nets in a day.... They were completely in their rights to keep the bronzies as stipulated bycatch, and make a decent killing out of selling the fins and carcasses, but released all.
Last year for about a month, there was a very unusual mass occurrance of undersized kob in false bay, and the trekkers actually stopped all activity until they were told that the shoals have moved off.
It was also witnessed recently that the owner of one of these "treks" smacked one of the trekkers over the head with a piece of wood for trying to hide an undersize fish in his clothing.
So they have done quite a bit to clean up their act in cape town.
Also remember that it's not a protected area, it is falsebay propers, and as many a local angler will attest it is on it's head more often than not, so not every day is a trekking day even if the fish are thick.
After that it's basic maths, catch effort vs catch returns. What the trekkers trek in kob over a year pales in comparison to what 1 inshore trawler trawls out of Mosselbay.
In fact 3 commercial boats out of false bay handlining will get more kob in a month than these guys get in a year, not to mention one good day of tail where all the recreationals run out will be more than the trekkies get in a year... yet the odd occasion when they do get tail and pictures are taken the comments that follow would think they wiped out yellowtail long ago....
They've been trekking those spots in falsebay for decades. They still havent wiped out the yellowtail.
It is a very broad swipe to say they wipe out everything, the few treks i've witnessed, all steenbras have been released.
http://www.iol.co.za/dailynews/news/beach-net-loopholes-are-closed-1.1284523 (http://www.iol.co.za/dailynews/news/beach-net-loopholes-are-closed-1.1284523)
Very informative read, if anyone has photos of the garrick caught we can have them prosecuted as they are not allowed to catch them
Nooit Chigger my cuzi, all the land below the high water mark belongs to the state, or the people of SA, the land above the high water mark belongs to the Durban Metro leased to the clubs. The high water mark is at the beach boundry of the club front area. Don't want to hijack this thread but hence the fight between us and the city/developers on construction of Small Craft Harbour. Enough said. My humble aspologies to all.We need to meet and have a beer sometime :beer:
Marthin, I am not condeming all commercials or activity but last year I watched the trekkers pull in about 12t of yellowtail all in roe, in amongst them were at least 20 steenbras - not one went back in the water. They all went home, the dont necesarily sell them but the still harvested. I dont care if it recreationals or commercials... it's wrong. Take to eat is fine but we know these species are under threat.
An not all trekkers have bad practices.
Just think there is a lack of equality in applying the laws. Wrt to the thread at hand, it's difficult but education is the only way. The club is not in the wrong but can possibly look and positive input/feedback to the netters - this is always easier said than done.
Oh, and yes we are all entitled to a living, an honest living. However, if this kind of activity (As Parasite has shown) is approved of, then how dare we appose Rhino poaching or whaling or the slaughter of Elephants.
I dont get it... I just heard NEW owner for that license........ so bang goes the theory of traditional fishing if I understand correctly.
I dont get it... I just heard NEW owner for that license........ so bang goes the theory of traditional fishing if I understand correctly.
This is not about livelihood, not anymore. If it was, he would protect that livelihood.
| [/t][/t][/t] |
Is the anti poaching line still 0822336565?
Thanks UA for the support.This is true. But all the competitive anglers are conservationists (or should be) The bay squid have been there since I was a kid. I and used to go down with my dad and suck them out the corner of the net, dont think they are being threatened. Its more about the illegal catchers that are being kept and sold.
We are taking a long hard look at these guys and I am waiting for some info and photo's to come in. We will do what we can to raise hell about it as soon as we have some ammunition.
@ Chris, I will be glad to meet you anywhere along the Virginia, Glenashley, La Lucia stretch to give you some stickers to spread around.
More and more, we are seeing a willingness amoungst communities and anglers to start standing up against this sort of blatant disregard for the laws governing our marine resources and with the social networks as a tool getting the message out has become so much easier. There are people out there willing to take a stand even if they do get threatened.
These netters are sitting pretty because they are very well connected, both in the municipality and local government and also amoung the competitive angling community. They are the major supplier of Bay Squid, The "magic bait" which they sell for anything between R30 and R35 a unit.
There are a load of rumours and accusations which keep resurfacing over and over agian and we will need to get confirmation on these and then get the details published and present what we can gather to James Woods at MCM.
If anyone has any info they would like to pass on, please mail it to me at mysticpixie1@yahoo.com
@ Robinf, I agree, we will not stand down. Thanks for the support.
This kind of fishing was banned in 1997 in Gambia and 2001 in Kenya. Are we seriously so far behind these countries?
The Seine netter are now using a trailer to get the rowing boat in the water, heard that the club don't tow their boats anymore.... photo of the seine netters boat the rowing boat and the rubber duck under cover only allowed to use it during the sardine run.....Was at the club on Saturday and the tractor was towing their boat (took a pic as proof), heard they got a lot of sand soldiers and bay squid in the morning, I did not see it as they were already in when I went down.
Thanks for the reply Shaun now we know we the club fits in. I did not go down to the club to check on the netters I went for breakfast and observed the tractor pulling the netters boat and was under the assumption the club did not assist. I would like to state that I have nothing against the netters except if they are breaking the law. Unfortunatly as I have said before the club is seen to be involved as the netters share premises and are assisted by the club. If I see anything illegal, believe me I will take photos. All I hope is the netters stay within the law and can be there for many years to come as they are part of Durban.
Tight lines.
hi allBecause its our duty as responsible citizens, and in our own best interests. Evil prevails because good men do nothing.
what i would like to know is, why should the public be responsible to notify authorities of illegal catches?
should they not be present to regulate and oversee what these idiots haul out? every sector controlled by government is a joke take everything from u but gives nothing back.
hi all
what i would like to know is, why should the public be responsible to notify authorities of illegal catches?
should they not be present to regulate and oversee what these idiots haul out? every sector controlled by government is a joke take everything from u but gives nothing back.
I agree 100% with Fishing Adventures and PH, you are right.Sorry to say, but I really think that if you knew me you woulden't make such a generalised statement. Have you been to DSBC/Vetchs beach??
Parasite, not to detract from the other posts, but your post is so valid. I have heard from so many people phoning me even from Gauteng stating the self same thing. Man, you so hit the nail on the head.
I think that a lot of the Ski Boat club guys that initially came out quite strongly, who frequent the club a lot, now have the club's management breathing down their necks and call it what you want, it amounts to passive intimidation and that is why you will see their stance softening over this. Again, it paints the club in a bad light. think about it, I know for a fact that the club management jumped onto the viewing of this topic and all of a sudden the stance softens? The numbers add up.
This is the email from Shaun Lavery (Vice Commodore)
Just a little history on the Seine netters and the tractor. We (DBSC) have assisted the netters with the tractor since the 60’s and though precedence have continued to do so. DSBC has always had non racial values and has always encouraged sustainable fishing in the greater Durban area. We have never become involved in the terms and conditions of their license as it is not the duty of DSBC to monitor the catches.
Yours in sustainable and legal fishing.
Shaun Lavery
Dealer Support Manager(KZN & Eastern Cape)
Yamaha Distributors South Africa
Mobile: (+27) 82 6522111
Office: (+27) 31 710 6400
www.yamaha.co.za (http://www.yamaha.co.za/)
I agree 100% with Fishing Adventures and PH, you are right.Robin, i'd advise against making assumptions like that. I came out strongly and remain opposed to the manner in which the Seine Netters conduct their business. I cant speak for any of the other DSBC members, but for me personally nobody has "passively influenced" me. Your efforts are to be commended, but perhaps you should focus a little less on the DSBC and more on the actual problem at hand.
Parasite, not to detract from the other posts, but your post is so valid. I have heard from so many people phoning me even from Gauteng stating the self same thing. Man, you so hit the nail on the head.
I think that a lot of the Ski Boat club guys that initially came out quite strongly, who frequent the club a lot, now have the club's management breathing down their necks and call it what you want, it amounts to passive intimidation and that is why you will see their stance softening over this. Again, it paints the club in a bad light. think about it, I know for a fact that the club management jumped onto the viewing of this topic and all of a sudden the stance softens? The numbers add up.
I agree 100% with Fishing Adventures and PH, you are right.Sorry to say, but I really think that if you knew me you woulden't make such a generalised statement. Have you been to DSBC/Vetchs beach??
Parasite, not to detract from the other posts, but your post is so valid. I have heard from so many people phoning me even from Gauteng stating the self same thing. Man, you so hit the nail on the head.
I think that a lot of the Ski Boat club guys that initially came out quite strongly, who frequent the club a lot, now have the club's management breathing down their necks and call it what you want, it amounts to passive intimidation and that is why you will see their stance softening over this. Again, it paints the club in a bad light. think about it, I know for a fact that the club management jumped onto the viewing of this topic and all of a sudden the stance softens? The numbers add up.
FYI - The management/board of DSBC has in the past BANNED THEIR OWN MEMBERS for flouting the law wrt catch restrictions (geelbek quotas and selling catch)
To put you in the picture, I have been a member of the Paddle Ski Club/DUC/DSBC for 26 years(some of the pictures on the board at the Paddle Ski Club were taken by me 25 years ago, including some taken the same day as that kingies pic)
I know the sein netters f#*k up quite well!!
Hi Dugongboy,Hi RobinF, I am fully behind this and have not been approched by anyone, as suggested lets leave the club out of it till we get some positive proof. It would be interesting to know what info you were given, PM me if you wish
I apologise (To you and any other members that I offended) for making the statement so generalised, it was incorrect on my part and I apologise if I offended anyone. I was quoting info that was given to me, but granted that this could be 'heresay'. I just acted on what I was told. So I apologise.
Yes, I have been to Vetches.
The pictures irrespective of when they were taken serve as photographic proof of catches made. I never said they were taken yesterday, nor did I imply so.
Regards
Robin
RobinF well done, keep us informed as I would like to attend the meeting.Me too
Good for you CLS, I thought you'd be one of the first to say "I'm in". It has the potential to be one of the most productive meetings yet. Ken just needs to do his part....will he do it? I'm waiting to see. (I honestly hope so, the situation is actually worse than first thought)
Ezemvelo has offered to meet with all that are interested in voicing their concern regarding the Vetches Seinne netters and poaching issues.
Guys, this is it, it's the first step toward cleaning things up. It MUST be well supported, if you have concerns, please attend it. If you want to understand what you can do if you witness anything, please attend.
This is so important, the situation is on the brink of exploding and this is a constructive way forward. Things will change if this is well attended. Please pass the message, I'll keep you guys updated when it is arranged.
Invitation from Ken Morty himself.
Hi FritzWell done Jace :+ cred:
Maybe a bit of semantics but WE will never be his people...Here is a reply to this on KZN Fishing I did a week ago
I just want to make a statement to the netters here in Durban and Capetown
I have heard and listened to so many stories but the thing that SICKENS me to the gut when the guys that ABUSE this netting license continue to bring race into the issue.
Guys , please grow up..you cannot use the excuse to destroy our marine resources under the misinformed gesture that we non whites support your greed. WE DO NOT.
Hi Fritz
Maybe a bit of semantics but WE will never be his people...Here is a reply to this on KZN Fishing I did a week ago
Jace, I am not tring to ofend anybody. Not my intention. My old club will confess to that. My issue is that the netters are doing this.
What I wanted to say is what is Morgan going to say when you "Jace" confronts him about the matter. Surely he is not going to throw the same card.
I just want to make a statement to the netters here in Durban and Capetown
I have heard and listened to so many stories but the thing that SICKENS me to the gut when the guys that ABUSE this netting license continue to bring race into the issue.
Guys , please grow up..you cannot use the excuse to destroy our marine resources under the misinformed gesture that we non whites support your greed. WE DO NOT.
Good for you CLS, I thought you'd be one of the first to say "I'm in". It has the potential to be one of the most productive meetings yet. Ken just needs to do his part....will he do it? I'm waiting to see. (I honestly hope so, the situation is actually worse than first thought)
There will definitively representative from KZN Fishing at this meeting .So we will be keeping an eye on this thread
hi allBecause its our duty as responsible citizens, and in our own best interests. Evil prevails because good men do nothing.
what i would like to know is, why should the public be responsible to notify authorities of illegal catches?
should they not be present to regulate and oversee what these idiots haul out? every sector controlled by government is a joke take everything from u but gives nothing back.
well said kaptain hook!!!! :nail: :nail: :nail: :+ cred: and robinf thanks for all the work you have done with this!!!! great avatair..she sheppard is a wonderfull organization to belong to!!! :+ cred: to you too!!!hi allBecause its our duty as responsible citizens, and in our own best interests. Evil prevails because good men do nothing.
what i would like to know is, why should the public be responsible to notify authorities of illegal catches?
should they not be present to regulate and oversee what these idiots haul out? every sector controlled by government is a joke take everything from u but gives nothing back.
Thank you Rooiwil, you cannot believe the K*K that I have gotten for my efforts and even for my avatar! Bunch of kids on another forum thought they'd try to get under my skin by shooting shots at Sea Shepherd :win: . I must say that I seldom get flack on this forum, that is what puts UA well above other forums. It's interesting that those that those that are so bold on other forums (And that are members here) won't pull the same non-sense here. Thank you Ultimate Angling for a superb forum. UA is a friendly and a 'warm' place to chat on. There is a mutual respect on this forum which one does not see on a lot of other forums.:resp: same as captain paul watson... the oke is also allways in the k a k.....you have to have big b a l l s to make a stance against idiots like these!! id love for that guy to point a gun at me......i dont think hes got it in him to do anything but point the thing!! to much dutchman in me........as for you talking about the next fifteen yrs ...i wonder if anything would be left at that time...very much doubt it....very very sad indeed!! keep up the good work mate...were here with you!!!! (clap) (clap)
Anyway, the tide has shifted and this form of fishing is no longer acceptable. This form of fishing started out as 'subsistence' many years ago, now it is a lucrative money making racket. It needs to be stopped completely.
I guarantee you all, that in 15yrs time, we will all look at this form of fishing and think holy hell, did they really still do that in 2013? The saddest thing is that these operations may shut down from lack of fish before we get them stopped. Maybe I'm wrong, possibly the resources will survive, I really hope so.well said kaptain hook!!!! :nail: :nail: :nail: :+ cred: and robinf thanks for all the work you have done with this!!!! great avatair..she sheppard is a wonderfull organization to belong to!!! :+ cred: to you too!!!hi allBecause its our duty as responsible citizens, and in our own best interests. Evil prevails because good men do nothing.
what i would like to know is, why should the public be responsible to notify authorities of illegal catches?
should they not be present to regulate and oversee what these idiots haul out? every sector controlled by government is a joke take everything from u but gives nothing back.
This thread is and always has been about Seine Netting. The sentiments remain the same whether in KZN, Western Cape or even if some clown tried seine netting in the Vaal Dam.(clap)
If I posed the question: Those opposed to the Vetch's Seine Netting operation, would you support the efforts to shut down the Western Cape Seine Netting operations? I am 100% sure that most would support the Western Cape efforts. It's not about the person running the operation at Vetch's, it's about the mechanics of this type of fishing and what it is doing to our resources.
:unhap this thread is making me emotional!!!! Conservation or presevation. I agree and disagree with both parties here but I would like to note that Sea Shepard are idiots.... they are now targeting spearos with photoshoped images of a fish speared in a herons mouth, what idiots. Next you won't be able to eat a sustainable species if they have there way or damn can't you hear that carrot crying as you bite into it!!! Japanese vessels hunting whales does not constitute research - this I agree on but what does it have to do with Trekking?bru .....not getting off the subject of netting...dolphins and whales mammals.....they are aware of themselves and us! dont want to get you hot under the collor....
Trek netters in the Cape need to be regulated and they need to treat the fish with respect (they should be shot for leaving fish lying in the hot sun and throwing them into the back of trucks bruising them) but they should be able to SUSTAINABLY fish or have their licences revoked - simple.
Be inspired and find out who Dr Sylvia Earle is and lets look at solutions.... as for 932 whales how much carbon emissions did they pour into our planet with their old uneconomical engines on the bunker guzzeling ship of theirs or is this the case of the lesser of two evils? and how do they calculate that thumb suck figure 932? that is a guesstimate and inaccurate like there attack on spearos...who's next catch and release anglers?
This is an emotional subject but if anyone is to blame it is failed policies, poor govenance and lack of people who stand up to what is truly wrong and turning a blind eye.
I am proud to say that most on this site do not,
but lets not lose out objectivity.
Blantant protectionism for the cuteness sake is rediculous, I dont see these tree huggers trying to campaing for endangered snakes - there cute factor really generally sucks... dont see too many kids wanting to cuddle a pretty viper! Every brat want to swim with a dolphin or hug a panda!
What needs to be done is the price of the resources needs to be increased by reduce quota and control, title given to the stake holders so THEY have a vested interest to protect the resource and sustain it and their futures....Australia has sucesfully done this so if a bunch of convicts can do this (sorry to anyone this may offend!) but then so can we...
ok, I just fell of the soap box, but always interested to see what the rest of you have to say...
.....another forum thought they'd try to get under my skin by shooting shots at Sea Shepherd.......
now it is a lucrative money making racket. It needs to be stopped completely.
I guarantee you all, that in 15yrs time, we will all look at this form of fishing and think holy hell, did they really still do that in 2013? The saddest thing is that these operations may shut down from lack of fish before we get them stopped. Maybe I'm wrong, possibly the resources will survive, I really hope so.
Point 1.... this should not get under you skin... I critisize Sea Sheppard in there erroneous ways but I also laud their aciehiments,
Point 2..... 100% ... the owners of these operations do very well whilst most of the guys helping them (fishing) live below the bread line...
Point 3....I hope you wrong...!
.....another forum thought they'd try to get under my skin by shooting shots at Sea Shepherd.......
now it is a lucrative money making racket. It needs to be stopped completely.
I guarantee you all, that in 15yrs time, we will all look at this form of fishing and think holy hell, did they really still do that in 2013? The saddest thing is that these operations may shut down from lack of fish before we get them stopped. Maybe I'm wrong, possibly the resources will survive, I really hope so.
Point 1.... this should not get under you skin... I critisize Sea Sheppard in there erroneous ways but I also laud their aciehiments,
Point 2..... 100% ... the owners of these operations do very well whilst most of the guys helping them (fishing) live below the bread line...
Point 3....I hope you wrong...!
Hijack in progress... (bat:blush: very sorry...!
The Japanese have a quota, a number that they 'announce' that they want to kill. This season it was 50 Humpbacks, 50 Fin whales and 935 Minke. The took no humpbacks, no fin whales and 103 Minkes. Thus, 1035 target less the 103 taken = 932 saved. Figures straight from the Japanese themselves. Sea Shepherd never thumb sucked that, sorry.
Parasite... rest assured, i said from the start after hearing the facts about the Durban trek, that i support Robin and any other person that are acting against it. I'm in cape town and can not attend any meetings there, but if there is anything i could assist with i would do so.
It is clear if you look at their catches they are specifically targetting undersize shoaling fish. Again the difference between that and Cape Town treks, down here, when there were only undersize fish around the trekking rights holders stopped trekking until they were told they smaller fish anomaly had moved off.
Robin here's a question.
If you happen to be a commercial with stipulations that you have to hand over undersize fish to the closest official what do you do if:
1. The official takes note of you having the fish, but does not want to take posession of the fish?
2. Where would YOU keep 1000 undersize cob if no official is available to hand it over to?
Last time photos were taken of undersize fish being loaded into a bakkie on the beach it was actually the DAFF official's vehicle!!!!!!!
The ruling here is that any fish caught as "by-catch" regardless a prohibited species, or under size has to be returned to the water, even dead. The Netter is then required, as stipulated in terms of their permit to record EVERYTHING caught in their net, even those dead fish returned to the water.idiots!!!!! with that mentallity sa is going nowhere!!! well done for standing up to them!!! some major newspapers are also very piky when it comes to issues like this....maybe its the race issue!! well im going to make an effort to get to vechies as often as i can and take as many pics as i can......hope i get some evidence....suppose ill be called a racist aswell.....
The issue here, we say, is that they willfully target these fish with the knowledge that the bulk of the haul will be undersized, they don't declare the catch and quantity, and remove the fish for market.
So now the Board is saying "well, give us proof that they are in breach of the permit" since their register shows no such events are taking place and the Netter states that the undersized fish are all returned to the water ???????
Guys, work with us here, any catch you witness, take photos and post to Ken in KZN with PICS, dates, times etc and they will compare it against the netter register. Do the same in the Cape, regardless how small or whatever is in their nets.
I tried a year back to do this through the media supplying photos and facts, the photos were not published, the letter, although published was heavly editored, and a week later i was branded a "racist" by a metro counciller through the same letters column in the same paper.
Parasite here they have to hand it over to the closest official. Far as i know that is the harbour master at Kalkbay.
If he doesnt rock up, you can't put it back coz here the trekkers have a bigger time keeping the public from trying to grab the undersize fish or fish that are tried to returned than they have stopping their own crew from stealing catches.
So let's say the designated chap didnt pitch up, and he cannot dump it on the beach.... then what. Load it on your bakkie and it decided right there you've taken it to smuggle it to Gauteng.
Last time photos were taken of undersize fish being loaded into a bakkie on the beach it was actually the DAFF official's vehicle!!!!!!!
But i will be watching that court case for the outcome as well.
Parasite here they have to hand it over to the closest official. Far as i know that is the harbour master at Kalkbay.
If he doesnt rock up, you can't put it back coz here the trekkers have a bigger time keeping the public from trying to grab the undersize fish or fish that are tried to returned than they have stopping their own crew from stealing catches.
So let's say the designated chap didnt pitch up, and he cannot dump it on the beach.... then what. Load it on your bakkie and it decided right there you've taken it to smuggle it to Gauteng.
Last time photos were taken of undersize fish being loaded into a bakkie on the beach it was actually the DAFF official's vehicle!!!!!!!
But i will be watching that court case for the outcome as well.
True story, Birtles and myself have seen this more than once
Dear UA Moderators/Admin
Please do not allow JB2 to steamroll conservation related threads like he was given carte blanche on Sea line Once he is allowed to do that there will NEVER be a normal discussion again.
For some reason he has run the roost on Sealine for many years. Most of the UA moderators know me and my past. Please with respect do not let him take over here as well and chase people away from this forum.
This forum is NOT interested in a childish slanging match about who lied and who didn't. Mr Bruk, if you have issues with RobinF, take them up with him privately.
You have many interesting observations on this subject, which make interesting reading, however we will not tolerate any more bickering at individuals.
We are also NOT interested what has transpired on any other Angling forum. Your kind co-operation will be appreciated.
Thread cleaned.
Anybody saw the Article in, Die Burger Yesterday ????
Guys please keep you Beef of this thread , theres a PM function . not cool ! :cnfzd
No sweat. This is how we roll on UA. Play the ball, not the man.
This forum is NOT interested in a childish slanging match about who lied and who didn't. Mr Bruk, if you have issues with RobinF, take them up with him privately.Apologies
You have many interesting observations on this subject, which make interesting reading, however we will not tolerate any more bickering at individuals.
We are also NOT interested what has transpired on any other Angling forum. Your kind co-operation will be appreciated.
Thread cleaned.
Yeah, it's 'organised chaos'. Also, this notion that the trekkers release Bronze sharks because they are 'conservation minded', is non-sense. If they fin a shark on the beach, what do they do with the rest of the shark? Just know that the trekkers will ALWAYS do what is in their own interests.Hi Robin
I also do not buy the whole 'Naartjie won't trek if their are too many small fish'. My belief is that they don't want to have to sort all the smaller fish out from the bigger fish. When you get caught with over 1000 undersized fish in your freezer, no matter how doff the next guy is, he will never believe that you are conservation minded.
Thank you Rooiwil, you cannot believe the K*K that I have gotten for my efforts and even for my avatar! Bunch of kids on another forum thought they'd try to get under my skin by shooting shots at Sea Shepherd :win: . I must say that I seldom get flack on this forum, that is what puts UA well above other forums. It's interesting that those that those that are so bold on other forums (And that are members here) won't pull the same non-sense here. Thank you Ultimate Angling for a superb forum. UA is a friendly and a 'warm' place to chat on. There is a mutual respect on this forum which one does not see on a lot of other forums.Hi Robin
Anyway, the tide has shifted and this form of fishing is no longer acceptable. This form of fishing started out as 'subsistence' many years ago, now it is a lucrative money making racket. It needs to be stopped completely.
I guarantee you all, that in 15yrs time, we will all look at this form of fishing and think holy hell, did they really still do that in 2013? The saddest thing is that these operations may shut down from lack of fish before we get them stopped. Maybe I'm wrong, possibly the resources will survive, I really hope so.well said kaptain hook!!!! :nail: :nail: :nail: :+ cred: and robinf thanks for all the work you have done with this!!!! great avatair..she sheppard is a wonderfull organization to belong to!!! :+ cred: to you too!!!hi allBecause its our duty as responsible citizens, and in our own best interests. Evil prevails because good men do nothing.
what i would like to know is, why should the public be responsible to notify authorities of illegal catches?
should they not be present to regulate and oversee what these idiots haul out? every sector controlled by government is a joke take everything from u but gives nothing back.
So then, back on track, who has, or will respond/ed to the call for comments published yesterday.Hi Travelmember
Is it a singular response, or a group.
Will it have any scientific input or will it be based on hearsay.
RobinF, are you co-ordinating responses? Will you be doing it for all the netting nationally?
This seems like an ideal opportunity to address the concerns. Failure to do so may well see more allocations to community based projects.
I agree 2bar. It is essentially managing a bad situation because the eradication is not an overnight process. That has been one of my biggest drives, make the authorities accountable. If the netters are 'policed' the bad apples will literally hand over the evidence and they can have their licenses revoked (I hope). The netters that choose to straighten up under threat of licenses being revoked will have to clean up.Hi Robin
The other big issue is why these guys don't or won't open the net up at the back and release the undersized or protected species? Maybe someone can enlighten on this? There is supposed to be a draw string attached which actually allows the net to be opened at the back for this exact reason. if it is because they are too lazy or if it is too much effort, then we are back to the fact that they do not deserve to be doing what they do. Anyone?
So then, back on track, who has, or will respond/ed to the call for comments published yesterday.
Is it a singular response, or a group.
Will it have any scientific input or will it be based on hearsay.
RobinF, are you co-ordinating responses? Will you be doing it for all the netting nationally?
This seems like an ideal opportunity to address the concerns. Failure to do so may well see more allocations to community based projects.
Hi RobinSo then, back on track, who has, or will respond/ed to the call for comments published yesterday.
Is it a singular response, or a group.
Will it have any scientific input or will it be based on hearsay.
RobinF, are you co-ordinating responses? Will you be doing it for all the netting nationally?
This seems like an ideal opportunity to address the concerns. Failure to do so may well see more allocations to community based projects.
Hi Travelmember, your question is a good one - the issues facing us is the small time frame to co-ordinate something substantial. As far as I know, we have until the end of the month. That is not enough time to meet scientists, other concerned members etc. get all the info together and put together a realistic 'group' opposition. I will be voicing my concerns, yes, but not as a group. I am hoping that other people, like myself will take the time and send in letters of concern. If we put a group together, it must be meaningful group or we will never be taken seriously. My biggest concern is that certain decisions have already been made. DAFF have said in Durban that they will not disclose what the decision to grant or not to grant the licenses will be based on. That makes it difficult to oppose.
In the issue of the Durban Vetch's Pier Netting operation, it looks like the License renewal has already been granted, prior to objections. I cannot confirm this 100%, it was something that Ken Morty (EKZNW) said in last week's meeting. I have emailed him and asked him to clarify. (I doubt that he will reply)
The opposition to this form of fishing is not going to win overnight. If I look at the emotional responses and personal stabs and rocks that are thrown at me, I can only say that it is a good measure to go on that progress is being made. Conservation is and always will be a thankless and hated cause where money is concerned. I am not going away and I find great motivation in the anger and almost hatred that gets hurled my way. This is a long fight, if they issue more licenses, I will view it as a setback, but it will only convince me to dedicate more time to this cause.
(Just so everyone is in the picture - JB2 is a maritime lawyer that works with the seine netters in the Cape.)
Wonder why jb2 was so knowledgeable about he netter.....Hi Eric
When there is nothing left they will all have no incomeHi CLS
Just after Breco imported 50 tons of yellowtail from japan i think, the price in struis dropped to R7/kg off the boat.
Just after Breco imported 50 tons of yellowtail from japan i think, the price in struis dropped to R7/kg off the boat.
:nail: How much must they have paid for the YT (Taking shipping and duties into account) to make it profitable....
My point is that each location has its own unique argument. To try a blanket ban approach is doomed to failure as the policy is already leaning to giving MORE rights to coastal communities.
BTW, I had an interesting chat the other day with a forum that wants an MPA to be implemented in the former Transkei - and for the resource to be exclusively used by the local community. No other fishing allowed. I am not sure what the rock and surf clubs are doing about this, but it is also something that requires urgent attention.
Hi RobinJust after Breco imported 50 tons of yellowtail from japan i think, the price in struis dropped to R7/kg off the boat.
Why did they import if our YT stocks are so good? (What on earth are they selling YT for in Japan, I would have thought it would have been better to support a local fisheries and keep the $ in SA?)
Anybody saw the Article in, Die Burger Yesterday ????
Guys please keep you Beef of this thread , theres a PM function . not cool ! :cnfzd
Yrrr Lenny, I was about to ask you what Article, what was it about??!!! :hehe: Nice one.
As for the addition of more Seine Netters in the Cape and anywhere else, we will deal with it when and if it comes.
because you won't be able to make the right disappear....
Hi Travelmember.
As for the addition of more Seine Netters in the Cape and anywhere else, we will deal with it when and if it comes.
Surely the time is now, let's try and have input rather than wait for it to happen.
I suggest that if you have something to say, then say it, but make sure you can substatiate your statements with facts and not heresay or you will take the weight out of your argument, they have opened the floor for public comment and now is the time to do it, but whatever you do do it in a mature and proper way.
If you feel that there are current license holders that have abused their conditions then now is the time to act against them so thet they do not get a renewal, and again substantiate all your statements with facts and not heresay.
My opinion is that God put the resource on earth for mans benefit and he put man in control of it, it up to us as man to ensure it is managed in a proper and sustianable way
@ Robin,
If I remember correctly from the meeting last week, the actual permit has already expired. The license I think used to be valid for 8 years but that was recently amended and its term is now only 5 years. This particular license expired a year ago and the netters have been operating under 1 year extensions meaning that they have been reapplying for an extension each year until the new permit is issued through the current process. Even so though, the timing strikes me as very, very strange. Mr Morty took almost 2 months to meet with us to discuss this issue and in this time the new 1 year extension was passed.
Hi Robin@ Robin,
If I remember correctly from the meeting last week, the actual permit has already expired. The license I think used to be valid for 8 years but that was recently amended and its term is now only 5 years. This particular license expired a year ago and the netters have been operating under 1 year extensions meaning that they have been reapplying for an extension each year until the new permit is issued through the current process. Even so though, the timing strikes me as very, very strange. Mr Morty took almost 2 months to meet with us to discuss this issue and in this time the new 1 year extension was passed.
Cameron, it was no coincidence. He gave everyone the runaround for a reason. At the time, do you remember the frustration of trying to get him to meet with people that are trying to assist his department? Do you remember the confusion as to why he could not meet earlier? The problem runs much deeper than what we we can prove. Where there is smoke there is fire and I nearly died of smoke inhalation two months ago. Like I said, it certainly looks like most of EKZNW are scared or complacent. Given the character in question and his 'shady' business affairs, I have to wonder what is really going on and where the motivation really lies.
I also wonder if the trek yesterday was mere show. The trek owner was not there. A disinterested parkie arrived and floundered about with his MP3 pumping out his tunes. It's a real concern guys.
Eventually fire must be fought with fire and if it's money that brings about leads and witnesses, then I won't rule that out. If I may quote Barrack Obama - 'Nothing's off the table'
Oh how the 117 Garrick (my beloved fish) is going to come back to haunt you Mr. Stickaguninyourface.
All it is going to take is ONE, just ONE to open up and the whole deck will fold. (Just too many irregularities going on there)
DAFF issues all permits
DAFF issues all permits
The reason why we are working with EKZNW is that they have the power to revoke the License if we catch this guy red handed.
DAFF issues all permits
The reason why we are working with EKZNW is that they have the power to revoke the License if we catch this guy red handed.
I think thier hands are tied, they can only enforce the law and prosecute, only after guilt is establishe in court can further action be taken
Please please please don't put words in my mouth or twist what I said.I never said that Mr. Morty was corrupt or that I suspect that he is. He had the decency to answer my email and we are seeking to work with his department, not against them. Statements like that only hurt the strained relationship that we have with them. Like, I said there may well be fear of this person or just complacency. I can prove neither, I am merely speculating.Hi Robin
He may have been avoiding us all for his own convenience, what I am saying is that I feel that he had an obligation to meet us sooner.
And yes, I do suspect (like most) that there is some irregular behavior somewhere. Again, no proof of this yet.
Hi RobinDAFF issues all permits
The reason why we are working with EKZNW is that they have the power to revoke the License if we catch this guy red handed.
I think thier hands are tied, they can only enforce the law and prosecute, only after guilt is establishe in court can further action be taken
That is exactly it. Right now, they are our best bet! DAFF won't do anything. There are one or two guys at EKZNW that are very motivated, they do a brilliant job. Such a good job that it sets a standard that not everyone measures up to. AKA makes some of the other guys look bad or disinterested. (I just hope that EKZNW can hang onto those good guys.)
Anyone going to Vetch's tomorrow? Silly Question! Please keep an eye out and let us know. And please let us know if anyone catches! :fshn:Hi Robin
Jb2 Just a thought here as it seems to me that we all on the same side and all have a passion for conservation. Surely our energy, time and efforts are better spent dealing with the matter at hand instead of attacking each other.
Keep your personal issues with people off this thread and rather make constructive comment or be quiet
Jb2... it is abundantly clear that the members of UA don't want to be subjected to your continued nit-picking and personal vendetta. You are railroading this thread with your own agenda, making things extremely unpleasant for all those interested. Enlighten us with your vast knowledge on the subject by stating facts and opinions, WITHOUT always trying to show someone up.
We won't be asking for your cooperation again.
Thank you Super Admin!
Think we all realise, permits are issued by DAFF, but that EKZNW have the powers to monitor and prosecute wrong doing with over fishing and criminal abuse of permits and the Sea Fisheries Act..
Since DAFF is hardly interested our only hope is to get EKZNW onboard to take decisive steps to curtail any wrong doing.
What's so difficult to understand about that late on a Friday afternoon?
Thank you Super Admin!
Think we all realise, permits are issued by DAFF, but that EKZNW have the powers to monitor and prosecute wrong doing with over fishing and criminal abuse of permits and the Sea Fisheries Act..
Since DAFF is hardly interested our only hope is to get EKZNW onboard to take decisive steps to curtail any wrong doing.
What's so difficult to understand about that late on a Friday afternoon?
(clap) Thanks Toppie, I also assumed everyone got what I meant.
Jb2 Just a thought here as it seems to me that we all on the same side and all have a passion for conservation. Surely our energy, time and efforts are better spent dealing with the matter at hand instead of attacking each other.
Keep your personal issues with people off this thread and rather make constructive comment or be quiet
:happ: :happ: :happ:
JB2 , you seem to have the trekkers in your camp .
Let me tell you , I dont care who you are and whats your background, you could be the pope for all I care. Could you take this personal matter off this Forum . This thread has turned sour since you have made efforts to derail and accuse persons of rubbish !
I take exception and umbrance to your suggestions , You have only made 28 posts on this forum , And regarldess of you agendas on other forums ,We just dont care , Further more you should keep these agendas [ what ever they might be ] of these type of forums that might allow this type of ' banter' .
You seem to have a long history of personal vendettas, none of the UA menmbers are in the least concerned about your , expert advice , or legal point of view . Are you a trekker ????
Should you find these comments 'nie van pas' you are more than welcome to PM me , or even I will buy you lunch in my part of town , it just seems you have plenty of time to talk online !
This might be very bad for my 'Smousing' om UA , but I really think you should consider ' thinking out loud else where'
Kind regards
Lenny
This is why I find UA so addictive - really interesting threads, conservation first and constructive, disciplined contributions - step out of line and members stand together and bring out the fly-swatters. I have been following this thread and would like to say well done RobinF and all those who are doing their best to stop this or get it controlled.
Just my 2c
Jb2... it is abundantly clear that the members of UA don't want to be subjected to your continued nit-picking and personal vendetta. You are railroading this thread with your own agenda, making things extremely unpleasant for all those interested. Enlighten us with your vast knowledge on the subject by stating facts and opinions, WITHOUT always trying to show someone up.Hi Super Admin
We won't be asking for your cooperation again.
Hi LennyJb2 Just a thought here as it seems to me that we all on the same side and all have a passion for conservation. Surely our energy, time and efforts are better spent dealing with the matter at hand instead of attacking each other.
Keep your personal issues with people off this thread and rather make constructive comment or be quiet
:happ: :happ: :happ:
JB2 , you seem to have the trekkers in your camp .
Let me tell you , I dont care who you are and whats your background, you could be the pope for all I care. Could you take this personal matter off this Forum . This thread has turned sour since you have made efforts to derail and accuse persons of rubbish !
I take exception and umbrance to your suggestions , You have only made 28 posts on this forum , And regarldess of you agendas on other forums ,We just dont care , Further more you should keep these agendas [ what ever they might be ] of these type of forums that might allow this type of ' banter' .
You seem to have a long history of personal vendettas, none of the UA menmbers are in the least concerned about your , expert advice , or legal point of view . Are you a trekker ????
Should you find these comments 'nie van pas' you are more than welcome to PM me , or even I will buy you lunch in my part of town , it just seems you have plenty of time to talk online !
This might be very bad for my 'Smousing' om UA , but I really think you should consider ' thinking out loud else where'
Kind regards
Lenny
Please excuse me for asking, what else do you do for a living and in which industries and sectors JB2?Hi Toppie
Jb2... it is abundantly clear that the members of UA don't want to be subjected to your continued nit-picking and personal vendetta. You are railroading this thread with your own agenda, making things extremely unpleasant for all those interested. Enlighten us with your vast knowledge on the subject by stating facts and opinions, WITHOUT always trying to show someone up.Hi Super Admin
We won't be asking for your cooperation again.
Apologies again.
The forums main rule is the golden rule. "Do unto others as you would have done to you."
I try to write honestly and forthrightly and I feel that other posters should be in turn, abide by the a certain level of honesty.
Please try to see my posts in this light.
I genuinely ask for your suggestions as to how to correct misleading posts.
There must be some mechanism to get across to a poster that the post is not just inaccurate but possibly crosses a line.
I have tried the direct approach and the oblique approach.
Any help that you can offer would be appreciated.
Catch Report:
Holy Hanna!!! How on earth did they catch this much? All that inconvenience to everyone and endangering the public, all for..............wait for it.........wait for it.......ONE MULLET! :win:
Pack it up and leave that area alone, for goodness sake.
Show me any other forum that gives you updates like these: :FST:
Well done guys, let's keep it up.
Hanna is Hebrew for Gods Grace and is a word to be used in reverenceCatch Report:
Holy Hanna!!! How on earth did they catch this much? All that inconvenience to everyone and endangering the public, all for..............wait for it.........wait for it.......ONE MULLET! :win:
Pack it up and leave that area alone, for goodness sake.
Show me any other forum that gives you updates like these: :FST:
Well done guys, let's keep it up.
The Department of Fisheries has gazetted a plan to change the Marine Living Resources Act.
This is the Act that controls fishing in South Africa.
The suggested changes are far reaching and have some very bad implications for recreationals.
Much of the bill is designed to give preference to small scale fishers.
This bill if accepted in this format will give small scale fishers (treknetters for example) the right to apply for exclusive use of an area/resource.
Kreef, etc.... dunno exactly how wide they will be able to "cast the net" so to speak to get themselves under the small scale fisher blanket.
small scale fishers will get preferance to any othe other entrants...
This proposed new bill will only serve one purpose and that is to make everyone a skelm. duh
The Department of Fisheries has gazetted a plan to change the Marine Living Resources Act.
This is the Act that controls fishing in South Africa.
The suggested changes are far reaching and have some very bad implications for recreationals.
Much of the bill is designed to give preference to small scale fishers.
This bill if accepted in this format will give small scale fishers (treknetters for example) the right to apply for exclusive use of an area/resource.
Kreef, etc.... dunno exactly how wide they will be able to "cast the net" so to speak to get themselves under the small scale fisher blanket.
small scale fishers will get preferance to any othe other entrants...
Not a very well thought through proposal. How will they police these 'allocated areas'? (They can't). Will the Seine Netters take the law into their own hands if they see a recreational fisherman in the area? (Yes). What if that fisherman is releasing all his catches? The questions are endless. The intent to empower is a good one, but in reality, it's another 'hair-brain' idea. Maybe one day these guys will match up good intentions with viable ideas. There are organisations in this country that just cannot match up the viability with good intentions and that makes them look rather silly. If they got it right, they would gain credibility, but they do things from the heart, not the head.
What will happen to the DAFF bottom line if all recreationals said 'ok, I'm not paying my license'. That is a massive amount of money lost. The above proposal is just going to cause endless issues if it is not thought through.
Ray, I have to agree with most of what you said.
Its a shame that so many people live below the bread line and that children go to bed hungry.
Ray, I have to agree with most of what you said.
Its a shame that so many people live below the bread line and that children go to bed hungry.
Hey Mike,
Maybe Ray has started something......maybe we need to chat along these lines and get Ultimate Angling involved to see if we can do a fund raiser specifically aimed at putting food in tummies. Good exposure for UA and a chance for us to give back?
(http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g460/robinflood/IMG-20130209-02094_zps74a0e65b.jpg)Hi Robin
(http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g460/robinflood/IMG-20130209-02092_zps86431ee2.jpg)
Lots of undersized fish, courtesy of the Aarendse Seine Netters - Cape Town (False Bay)
Note how small the Cob on the top is?Hi Robin
(http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g460/robinflood/IMG-20130209-00505_zps930c7449.jpg)
Robin, highly unlikely, as the DBN netters are restricted as to where they can set their nets due to the shark nets spanning the entire length of the beach front. On the one side they are bordered by Vetch's Reef, and the other are demarcated bathing areas. I believe that it would have no impacted on the PWC members, or any recreational fishermen as these guys fish these areas durning the evening, however the issue here with these netters is that this little area is in abundence with juvenile fish and this is where our problems rests.This proposed new bill will only serve one purpose and that is to make everyone a skelm. duh
Well said Hermann.
And if this bill is passed, what will happen at Vetch's Pier? Does that area then belong to the Seine Netter at Vetch's? So does the DSBC pack up and move? :nuts:
Hi ParasiteRobin, highly unlikely, as the DBN netters are restricted as to where they can set their nets due to the shark nets spanning the entire length of the beach front. On the one side they are bordered by Vetch's Reef, and the other are demarcated bathing areas. I believe that it would have no impacted on the PWC members, or any recreational fishermen as these guys fish these areas durning the evening, however the issue here with these netters is that this little area is in abundence with juvenile fish and this is where our problems rests.This proposed new bill will only serve one purpose and that is to make everyone a skelm. duh
Well said Hermann.
And if this bill is passed, what will happen at Vetch's Pier? Does that area then belong to the Seine Netter at Vetch's? So does the DSBC pack up and move? :nuts:
Hi SAfish and RobinThis proposed new bill will only serve one purpose and that is to make everyone a skelm. duh
Well said Hermann.
And if this bill is passed, what will happen at Vetch's Pier? Does that area then belong to the Seine Netter at Vetch's? So does the DSBC pack up and move? :nuts:
Thanks Parasite. But that is just the part of it. We all know the dude that owns that operation and if DAFF start allocating exclusive areas to these guys, I would expect that he would ask for the same. He certainly has no shortage of legal assistance. It would secure his business (and get us off his back to a certain degree). That is why this bill is not a very well thought out process. And that also leads me to the issue of fishing in a recognised nursery......give the marine stocks a chance for goodness sake.Hi Robin
......DAM.....again......dont you ever stop?????? :craz:Note how small the Cob on the top is?Hi Robin
(http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g460/robinflood/IMG-20130209-00505_zps930c7449.jpg)
People on this forum get upset if I ask you to talk straight so I suppose your hyperbole will win out.
Do you think the catches in the photos are representative of the treks in False Bay?
Ironically, the MLRA is being revised and the recreational sector faces is biggest challenge in decades.
Unless we get a handle on what's going on then we, as a recreational sector stand to loose out on much of our enjoyment of the sea.
The misleading information that you provide goes a long way to interfering in recreationals' ability to make an informed comment.
So for one last time. Hyperbole or reality, are the photos representative of False Bay catch composition or not.
If you don't know then say so. People get upset when I press you for an answer so I won't.
Robin, the catch composition please.
If you respond with evasion and hyperbole then you stand to do a terrible harm to the recreational sector.
The choice is yours.
If DAFF cannot sufficiently police the Seine Netting operations country wide, they will NEVER be able to police the recreationals.Hi Robin
Here's my maths:
Treknetters cast nets 3 times in a week, and two nets are 65% full. That is much more fish than any number of recreationals would have caught in that same period and their destruction of the juveniles is MUCH greater than recreationals. I would bet on an undersized recreational caught fish being successfully released any day ahead of some Seine Netter squeezing the life out of the smaller fish in the net.
be honest, how many recreational fishermen fish 7 days a week, or even 3 days a week, every week. Almost none. The writting is indeed on the wall as to who does more destruction to our resources.
How often do you read an article like this about recreationals? Ahhhh...never? (So before I get ignorantly accused of misleading anyone, please note that I did not write this article in the paper, nor did I 'manufacture' it...you may be told otherwise.. :dunno: My name is not Michelle Saffer. Again, you may be told otherwise :nuts: )
(http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g460/robinflood/trekkers_zps4a5adac6.jpg)
Hi Rooiwil......DAM.....again......dont you ever stop?????? :craz:Note how small the Cob on the top is?Hi Robin
(http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g460/robinflood/IMG-20130209-00505_zps930c7449.jpg)
People on this forum get upset if I ask you to talk straight so I suppose your hyperbole will win out.
Do you think the catches in the photos are representative of the treks in False Bay?
Ironically, the MLRA is being revised and the recreational sector faces is biggest challenge in decades.
Unless we get a handle on what's going on then we, as a recreational sector stand to loose out on much of our enjoyment of the sea.
The misleading information that you provide goes a long way to interfering in recreationals' ability to make an informed comment.
So for one last time. Hyperbole or reality, are the photos representative of False Bay catch composition or not.
If you don't know then say so. People get upset when I press you for an answer so I won't.
Robin, the catch composition please.
If you respond with evasion and hyperbole then you stand to do a terrible harm to the recreational sector.
The choice is yours.
Treknetters cast nets 3 times in a week, and two nets are 65% full. That is much more fish than any number of recreationals would have caught in that same period and their destruction of the juveniles is MUCH greater than recreationals. I would bet on an undersized recreational caught fish being successfully released any day ahead of some Seine Netter squeezing the life out of the smaller fish in the net.
or if WK and Robin who release everything are lumped with me :-)
Just so everyone knows: The article is proof that this kind of criminal activity exists and there is a case right now on the court role involving the netter Naartjie and 1000 undersized cob in his freezer. The photo's were from the Aarends Seine netters. Both Seine Netters from the Strandfontein Area in False Bay, proof that both are not as fuzzy and cuddly as one would like everyone to believe. :win:Hi Robin
Travelmember those are some excellent figures you put forward but no doubt they will be ignored....
Hi TravelmemberQuoteTreknetters cast nets 3 times in a week, and two nets are 65% full. That is much more fish than any number of recreationals would have caught in that same period and their destruction of the juveniles is MUCH greater than recreationals. I would bet on an undersized recreational caught fish being successfully released any day ahead of some Seine Netter squeezing the life out of the smaller fish in the net.
Robin, how many trek licences are there nationally. And how many recreationals. Your statement above is factually incorrect. Now before attacking me, consider the numbers put forward by the small scale sector at the recent public hearings.
675,000 licensed fishermen. 300,000 unlicensed (based on DAFF survey). Total 975,000. Average 2 sessions per month. CPUE 1.7
60% Released as undersize, with a 30% mortality rate (think of kids fishing off a harbour wall). That is 3.3 million fish per month caught. 60% are released = 1.99M. 30% die = 600,000 undersized / released fish killed by recreationals every month. That is over and above the ones they are licensed to harvest. There were no recreational representatives present with a scientific study to repudiate these numbers.
I implore you to please use your passion in a way that will help. Get involved in the draft now.
@rooiwil, I think what jb2 is trying to say is don't judge a sector by one haul. In much the same way that we shouldn't categorise the recreationals based on the actions of one individual on one day. Just imagine the outcry here if all of us were lumped together with the GW catcher of the Eastern Cape - or if WK and Robin who release everything are lumped with me :-)
QuoteTreknetters cast nets 3 times in a week, and two nets are 65% full. That is much more fish than any number of recreationals would have caught in that same period and their destruction of the juveniles is MUCH greater than recreationals. I would bet on an undersized recreational caught fish being successfully released any day ahead of some Seine Netter squeezing the life out of the smaller fish in the net.sry .....jb2......got it all whrong....apolagies mate....thanx travel.......
Robin, how many trek licences are there nationally. And how many recreationals. Your statement above is factually incorrect. Now before attacking me, consider the numbers put forward by the small scale sector at the recent public hearings.
675,000 licensed fishermen. 300,000 unlicensed (based on DAFF survey). Total 975,000. Average 2 sessions per month. CPUE 1.7
60% Released as undersize, with a 30% mortality rate (think of kids fishing off a harbour wall). That is 3.3 million fish per month caught. 60% are released = 1.99M. 30% die = 600,000 undersized / released fish killed by recreationals every month. That is over and above the ones they are licensed to harvest. There were no recreational representatives present with a scientific study to repudiate these numbers.
I implore you to please use your passion in a way that will help. Get involved in the draft now.
@rooiwil, I think what jb2 is trying to say is don't judge a sector by one haul. In much the same way that we shouldn't categorise the recreationals based on the actions of one individual on one day. Just imagine the outcry here if all of us were lumped together with the GW catcher of the Eastern Cape - or if WK and Robin who release everything are lumped with me :-)
Those photos of the Aarendse Trek show what was seen on those occasions. I did not make them up. :dunno: The oldest trick is the 'but there are much worse issues than Seine Netters'. White sharks? Now what, I must drop the topic and quickly put my energies into the Syrian crisis, or Iran issues? The photo's are what they are, photographic evidence.Hi Robin
Call me what you want. Onredelik, misleading, or whatever, I've been called much worse. All opinions and speculation.
My cause is the preservation of our marine resources
And for the record, just because DAFF say it's OK does not make it OK.
I've always been consistent in my view on this issue, I also choose not to single anyone out by name, I am who I am and I am not going to change my stand where our marine resources are under threat. If that makes me 'onredelik (Unreasonable)' or misleading in your opinion, then have your opinion, you are entitled to it, as am I.
The photo's are from two different incidents, same Seine Netter, within a three month period. We get photo's of every 15-20 trek if we are lucky, so I call those stats pretty convincing.Hi Robin
Many more photo's available from many different times. (Stop knit picking.)Hi Robin
An email from Ken Morty (EKZNW) was received this morning in which he statedWe can only hope Ms Londi takes her job seriously and will follow up on any illigal doings.
"Please be advised that I am no longer responsible for the marine management programmes in the province, as I have been recently transferred to a terrestrial responsibility, please direct any queries that you have to Ms. Londi Mbuyisa in future (mbuyil@kznwildlife.com)"
Another sad day indeed.Hi CLS
SAD SAD SAD !!!! :cry: :cry: :cry:
More bad news , I am afraid . Our Local rag[Districk mail] , reported similar Treks , on two diffrent times .
I was hoping we would have dodged this on UA , According to the Paper [ Districk mail] there was two DAFF officers that saw the Trek, they both got 2 fish and left .According to them and some of JB's pics , it seem to be on Maccasar.
On a few occasions , we confronted them , and they say its was not Steenbras, and went on to say you dont catch Redsteenbrass in Nets , We told them its White steenbrass , they said theres no White Steenbrass in Falsbay , now I wondered about this , for a while , and came to the conclusion that they dont know the a Kob from a Steenbrasse ... SHOCKING !
One could furthermore assume If you get paid for a Job , you must do it ...
I wonder if its those Clowns sitting in the 'report illegal fishing activities caravan' in Kalkbay harbour .
SCUMBAGS !
They knew exactly what they were catching.Hi Robin
You see JB2 , thats the type of Statement , that leaves ,Doubt into my mind , and to others . As what your Agenda is , to me , and most others[that find it worth it to respond on this thread ] its plain ans simple.
1 . They knew it was White Steenbrass .
2 They knew there are not allowed to 'harvest them , OR to sell them '
3. giving DAFF persons on site fish IS a Bribe , no matter how you try to Gloss the story !
4. I dont want to heard about Sectors , and Permits , and taking food from their mouths [or Martins inshore Hake Quotas whoo haa or the colour of Ray halls Guides ]
5. So whats ' more to the story '?
6. The only possible reason is that they get away with it , and have been getting away with this for years !
7. this is wrong however way you see it or like in your case try to put a 'gloss' on the crime , dont put a gloss on a dirty disgusting deed.
8. We have a right to those fish , hell Rec Fishers basicly have more rights than the netters , we can still keep a Steenbras.
Leads me to my next point , and final point , You Jb 2 seem to have a lot of info , and are in the industry , like many others , and like many members we would like to unite , to get something done about this , you have to be really naive to say that these actions are fine , as its not one or 2 incidents , this is how they roll , rape, pilage and plunder .The owners of these permits , are FAT , they have lots of kids , and generally does not look like they are hungry , they also have the latest phones plastered to their ears during the trek , VOL airtime .
I have no time for people that destroy nature , litter and does not seem to think for the future , it takes one person out of a hundred to stuff up the other 99's conservasion/ C&R efforts . I would love to see these people in jail !
I'm going to follow up with DAFF regarding this incident when I am back in SA. Either they must prosecute or set a precedence for catching and keeping White Steenbras. (i.e. the Trekker gets prosecuted or they allow the wholesale slaughter of this protected species. The fact is that if they do nothing, they cannot touch anyone else). There is no grey area. It's either or.
I'm not one for open ended statements that leave everyone scratching their heads, so as I get info, I will post it.
I'm going to follow up with DAFF regarding this incident when I am back in SA. Either they must prosecute or set a precedence for catching and keeping White Steenbras. (i.e. the Trekker gets prosecuted or they allow the wholesale slaughter of this protected species. The fact is that if they do nothing, they cannot touch anyone else). There is no grey area. It's either or.
I'm not one for open ended statements that leave everyone scratching their heads, so as I get info, I will post it.
Hi Robin
We are way ahead of you.
Organised angling will let us know the details of the car.
As soon as I have some specs on the boat owner I will let you know.
Anglers have been in touch with DAFF, Sanparks and a couple of others.
The photos of the guy in the uniform appear to be of DAFF official but I can't place the white shirt.
Will keep you posted.
Hi LennyI'm going to follow up with DAFF regarding this incident when I am back in SA. Either they must prosecute or set a precedence for catching and keeping White Steenbras. (i.e. the Trekker gets prosecuted or they allow the wholesale slaughter of this protected species. The fact is that if they do nothing, they cannot touch anyone else). There is no grey area. It's either or.
I'm not one for open ended statements that leave everyone scratching their heads, so as I get info, I will post it.
Hi Robin
We are way ahead of you.
Organised angling will let us know the details of the car.
As soon as I have some specs on the boat owner I will let you know.
Anglers have been in touch with DAFF, Sanparks and a couple of others.
The photos of the guy in the uniform appear to be of DAFF official but I can't place the white shirt.
Will keep you posted.
ATLAST , it seems we gettin our swr together and sticking together !!!to stop these things !
Don't care who's ahead of who, I am still going to follow up myself. (Hopefully when I get back to SA there will be a positive posting regarding this illegal catch).Hi Robin
Don't care who's ahead of who, I am still going to follow up myself. (Hopefully when I get back to SA there will be a positive posting regarding this illegal catch).
At this stage DAFF reckon that according to Tracker, that no DAFF vehicles were on that site. When asked if they were advised that the trek was taking place, they declined to comment.....It's ok, the truth will come out.
In my opinion (and it is only my opinion) they knew about it, knew what species were being targeted and turned a blind eye....and now they are falling over themselves.
What this has done is opened up the first major battlefront. DAFF clearly have it in their wallets or pockets or agendas to make sure these guys all carry on and possibly add to the pot a few more. I always said this situation is going to cut itself and here it starts. (Add a few more and their will be turf wars.)
So on the Strandfontein & Macassar side this is in the last 12 months:
Trek #1 - Arendse: We have photo's of one huge load of undersized Cob with another Bakkie (not from the trek netter, but assisting him) taking the undersized Cob - the undersized Cob were never given to DAFF.
Trek # 2 - Naartjie: (This is older than 12 months I think, but is on the court roll) Over 1000 undersized Cob seized and now a court case pending.
Trek # 3 - Macassar Trek: Huge haul of protected White Steenbras.
Then there's the clown at Vetche's Pier in Kzn with a looooooong history of raping the fish stocks and taking species that he is not allowed to take.
This keeps happening again and again.
Is it just me or is there a bloody trend here. People will say that the battle must be fought in the government offices and at the DAFF meetings....no people. These guys have their own agendas.....this is a fight that must be fought on OUR terms not theirs. Every load of photo's that are put out there add to the growing evidence and I tell you this, it is only time before Carte Blanche or the likes start asking questions. These guys are giving us all the ammo we need. Let the hard questions get asked to the DAFF Seniors when we have more evidence and see what they say. They are going to look like a bunch of absolute monkeys. There are many key players in the marine conservation industry already involved in this, I guess it's like waiting for the volcano to blow.
The only issue is that our marine resources are the price for that wait.
It shows a lot about DAFF when they need the public to police these waters like this. This latest Macasser trek should have crapped when they saw what they had and opened the net. What they did do is show a flagrant disregard for the law and that shows me that they have done this lots before and fear no law. In other words, they know someone in DAFF that will protect them.
At this stage DAFF reckon that according to Tracker, that no DAFF vehicles were on that site. When asked if they were advised that the trek was taking place, they declined to comment.....It's ok, the truth will come out.
In my opinion (and it is only my opinion) they knew about it, knew what species were being targeted and turned a blind eye....and now they are falling over themselves.
What this has done is opened up the first major battlefront. DAFF clearly have it in their wallets or pockets or agendas to make sure these guys all carry on and possibly add to the pot a few more. I always said this situation is going to cut itself and here it starts. (Add a few more and their will be turf wars.)
So on the Strandfontein & Macassar side this is in the last 12 months:
Trek #1 - Arendse: We have photo's of one huge load of undersized Cob with another Bakkie (not from the trek netter, but assisting him) taking the undersized Cob - the undersized Cob were never given to DAFF.
Trek # 2 - Naartjie: (This is older than 12 months I think, but is on the court roll) Over 1000 undersized Cob seized and now a court case pending.
Trek # 3 - Macassar Trek: Huge haul of protected White Steenbras.
Then there's the clown at Vetche's Pier in Kzn with a looooooong history of raping the fish stocks and taking species that he is not allowed to take.
This keeps happening again and again.
Is it just me or is there a bloody trend here. People will say that the battle must be fought in the government offices and at the DAFF meetings....no people. These guys have their own agendas.....this is a fight that must be fought on OUR terms not theirs. Every load of photo's that are put out there add to the growing evidence and I tell you this, it is only time before Carte Blanche or the likes start asking questions. These guys are giving us all the ammo we need. Let the hard questions get asked to the DAFF Seniors when we have more evidence and see what they say. They are going to look like a bunch of absolute monkeys. There are many key players in the marine conservation industry already involved in this, I guess it's like waiting for the volcano to blow.
The only issue is that our marine resources are the price for that wait.
It shows a lot about DAFF when they need the public to police these waters like this. This latest Macasser trek should have crapped when they saw what they had and opened the net. What they did do is show a flagrant disregard for the law and that shows me that they have done this lots before and fear no law. In other words, they know someone in DAFF that will protect them.
Hi Robin
Hi Robin
Much of what you say has little connection to reality. It is so hard to respond to some of the stuff that you say since it is just weird.
A discussion taking place on another forum suggests it might have been a security guard. The white shirt is not DAFF uniform.
You are mixing up the two undersize kob stories with the Arendses.
The big load was when Osbourne the inspector was there. Remember the other time you told that story about Aziz taking the fish to Gauteng. You got upset when I asked you to stick to the truth but you later said that the fish did not go to Gauteng.
When Osbourne loaded the Arendse fish onto his bakkie he was accepting it in terms of the permit conditions. There is no offence committed. There is no collusion or assistance.
There is no reason to spice up a story. Let's all stick to the truth.
The Macassar story is spicy enough.
You have no insight into the current dynamics inside DAFF.
Take it easy.
Shame the Devil and tell the truth.
Seems I hit a nerve. You friends are raping the ocean, face up to it.
Stop trying to discredit me, I never lied and I never contradicted myself.
Maybe you should do as the forum admin has asked you a number of times and stop addressing individuals and address the forum rather.
I also take exception you you outright statement that I have no insight into the current dynamics inside DAFF...How dare you?
You need to face what your buddies are doing...
I have no inclination to level with you or answer your silly questions. Just accept that your clients are raping our marine resources.Hi Robin
If you want to prove how big 'it' is, get a magnifying glass or leave the rubbish off Ultimate Angling.
I have alot in stock, please let me know :win:Hi
I have alot in stock, please let me know :win:Hi
Should I not correct Robin?
Is it better to have accurate information or trippy stuff that has little grounding in reality?
It is a serious question.
No problem. So correct the stuff that it is out of line but do it nicely.I have alot in stock, please let me know :win:Hi
Should I not correct Robin?
Is it better to have accurate information or trippy stuff that has little grounding in reality?
It is a serious question.
Not in the way you doing it
In the photo below one can see the undersized fish with one or two larger ones. These fish never made it to the Kalk Bay Harbour. This the Arendse Trek. Anel from DAFF confirmed that these never arrived there. The scary thing is that it seems like this form of fishing is not only destroying a large part of the juvenile fish stocks, but also taking the protected species now in shoals.Hi Robin
Arendse Trek @ Strandfontein - note undersized baby fish.
(http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g460/robinflood/IMG-20130209-02092_zps86431ee2.jpg)
I have alot in stock, please let me know :win:Hi
Should I not correct Robin?
Is it better to have accurate information or trippy stuff that has little grounding in reality?
It is a serious question.
Not in the way you doing it
I have alot in stock, please let me know :win:Hi
Should I not correct Robin?
Is it better to have accurate information or trippy stuff that has little grounding in reality?
It is a serious question.
Not in the way you doing it
Hi 2bar
Is that better?
I didn't mention the fact that Robin had previously invented a story that the fish had been driven to Gauteng.
Before you criticise me rather set out a nice "non troll" way of dealing with the Guateng story so that I can follow it in future.
An eye witness told me first hand how the owners wife (Val) was telling the workers to conceal the small fish under a tarp so that no-one would see what they were taking. Very sad.
Fish sold inland gets a very good price and is worth the effortHi 2 bar
Fish sold inland gets a very good price and is worth the effortHi 2 bar
I realise that but you must mean fish in insulated containers or on ice in bins.
It is not that important since Robin had said that he did not mean that the fish was actually sent to Gauteng so we could leave it if you prefer.
Fish sold inland gets a very good price and is worth the effortHi 2 bar
I realise that but you must mean fish in insulated containers or on ice in bins.
It is not that important since Robin had said that he did not mean that the fish was actually sent to Gauteng so we could leave it if you prefer.
Yup.Fish sold inland gets a very good price and is worth the effortHi 2 bar
I realise that but you must mean fish in insulated containers or on ice in bins.
It is not that important since Robin had said that he did not mean that the fish was actually sent to Gauteng so we could leave it if you prefer.
I have personally driven a load of snoek to JHB from CT in a bakkie during the night in a canopied bakkie with ice...No problem at all ;)
Not much ice btw
More from the Arendse Trek.Hi Robin
There are numerous undersized fish in amongst this load. An eye witness told me first hand how the owners wife (Val) was telling the workers to conceal the small fish under a tarp so that no-one would see what they were taking. Very sad.
(http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g460/robinflood/IMG-20130209-02094_zps74a0e65b.jpg)
Hi 2barI have alot in stock, please let me know :win:Hi
Should I not correct Robin?
Is it better to have accurate information or trippy stuff that has little grounding in reality?
It is a serious question.
Not in the way you doing it
Hi 2bar
Is that better?
I didn't mention the fact that Robin had previously invented a story that the fish had been driven to Gauteng.
Before you criticise me rather set out a nice "non troll" way of dealing with the Guateng story so that I can follow it in future.
Los vir my uit bru lol. Fact is, I work with shipping fish to JHB alot. I would believe Robin that those fish could have been carted north ;) True story
Yup.Fish sold inland gets a very good price and is worth the effortHi 2 bar
I realise that but you must mean fish in insulated containers or on ice in bins.
It is not that important since Robin had said that he did not mean that the fish was actually sent to Gauteng so we could leave it if you prefer.
I have personally driven a load of snoek to JHB from CT in a bakkie during the night in a canopied bakkie with ice...No problem at all ;)
Not much ice btw
But would you do 2 bins undersize?
Hi 2barI have alot in stock, please let me know :win:Hi
Should I not correct Robin?
Is it better to have accurate information or trippy stuff that has little grounding in reality?
It is a serious question.
Not in the way you doing it
Hi 2bar
Is that better?
I didn't mention the fact that Robin had previously invented a story that the fish had been driven to Gauteng.
Before you criticise me rather set out a nice "non troll" way of dealing with the Guateng story so that I can follow it in future.
Los vir my uit bru lol. Fact is, I work with shipping fish to JHB alot. I would believe Robin that those fish could have been carted north ;) True story
I was asking a serious question. Seriously.
Robin had said that Aziz took them in his bakkie to Gauteng.
I still don't believe that it would pay anyone to drive 2 bins undersize in an unrefrigerated 1980's Isuzu from Cape Town to Jhb.
I am being serious I just don't think that it would be economically viable.
Hi 2barYup.Fish sold inland gets a very good price and is worth the effortHi 2 bar
I realise that but you must mean fish in insulated containers or on ice in bins.
It is not that important since Robin had said that he did not mean that the fish was actually sent to Gauteng so we could leave it if you prefer.
I have personally driven a load of snoek to JHB from CT in a bakkie during the night in a canopied bakkie with ice...No problem at all ;)
Not much ice btw
But would you do 2 bins undersize?
If I was a poacher and the price was right??? Definitely. Do you know what price fresh kob fetches? You'll be very surprised
Ive seen R74 per kg in CT for fresh kob, what price do you think that translates to in "JHB" price? Even if it didnt happen...its still viable to make the trip imho
I'm done. Cheers
Sorry to ruin the day, but fish did go and continues to go to Gauteng. I don't need to make anything up, it's all there.Hi Robin
Ive seen R74 per kg in CT for fresh kob, what price do you think that translates to in "JHB" price? Even if it didnt happen...its still viable to make the trip imho
I'm done. Cheers
Thanks 2bar.boost....Me too!
This whole topic stink of corruption and involvement . I don't buy any if it
I really hope that we will see more coverage of this kind of thing. The more the press gets involved, the better. This situation needs to be highlighted and thus pressure will be applied onto the authorities. (The fact is that this should never have happened in the first place and I cannot help but wonder why this Trek Netter felt so brazen and confident about doing what he did - the whole thing stinks.) Sorry about the quality of the article.Hi Robin
(http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g460/robinflood/946260_10152995525995206_1421686177_n_zpsbdf235cc.jpg)
Marthin has made a good point here. There's two issues here:Hi Robin
1) It leads back to the authorities. The authorities are supposed to be notified about the treks and because a trek does not happen everyday, there is little reason for the authorities not to be present. It's actually inexcusable when there is more and more anger and frustration around this type of fishing that the DAFF guys don't show a face there.
2) And the then there is the issue of 'professionalism'. Ok, the Trek/Seine Netters (All of them) don't portray themselves as being very professional, they have a responsibility to conserve what they surely would like to pass onto their kids? I guess in my mind the main issue on this point is - "You've been afforded the privilege that few have. Employment and a food source. Protect that source, act responsibly and do what is right" - or else
What should happen right now is that the guy at Macasser should have his license suspended until an outcome is found. The fact is that the evidence is there, it's not like we need witnesses and statements only. When found guilty, that license should be revoked. And then if it is a rights issue, then give the rights to someone that won't break the law. Screen the guys, read them the riot act, make them understand that there is massive consequences for breaking the law. If the price paid is greater than the rewards for breaking the law, this should not happen.
Make the DAFF presence mandatory... as far as i know it was just a kind of agreement.Hi Marthin
If the right is revoked and handed to the next person, it's simple if you and your crew break the rules, it get's handed to the next in line.
All confiscated/dead/handed over fish get's distributed in Vrygrond or another designated place of need.
As noble a suggestion as it is to donate the fish, I'll say what most are probably (I said probably and most, so not everyone) thinking - it's another chance for money to change hands. I wish that I did not have to think like that, but I am sure there is a reason why they don't allow the fish to be donated.Hi Robin
correct robin i don't think it doesnt bring it's own issues, any "welfare" case does, our lottery system is a prime example and maybe it's maladministration is space for another thread
I just can't handle the fact that one entire load that i know of was destined to be "destroyed" by having them throw it in a hole and cover it up!!!!! The fish are dead now, people are dying of hunger across the road, but we rather dump the stuff?
If we are all on the same side don't understand the fighting and bickering. Please stop your nonsense.
Our common aim must be to expose all illegal fishing and raping the ocean as us/we recreationals are getting the blame.
Stand together guys with one voice we can make a difference. Some good research and cases cited here, keep up the good work!
If we are all on the same side don't understand the fighting and bickering. Please stop your nonsense.
Our common aim must be to expose all illegal fishing and raping the ocean as us/we recreationals are getting the blame.
Stand together guys with one voice we can make a difference. Some good research and cases cited here, keep up the good work!
If we are all on the same side don't understand the fighting and bickering. Please stop your nonsense.
Our common aim must be to expose all illegal fishing and raping the ocean as us/we recreationals are getting the blame.
Stand together guys with one voice we can make a difference. Some good research and cases cited here, keep up the good work!
We have done our credibility a huge disservice with our whole: "Inspectors were complicit in the Macassar trek" story.
I do this with questions like "What are we to make of the white and orange boat?"
If a person doesn't know what is going on then they will ignore the question.
If we are all on the same side don't understand the fighting and bickering. Please stop your nonsense.quote] jb2 please don't go, I am following this thread very closely as I started it, i/we as laymen say things as we see them which may not be satisfactory / correct to you legal beagles so I personally don't feel anyone is being undermined and all seem to be on the same page in fighting this plunder of our fish stocks.Guys please keep the positive comments coming as this effects us all weather it's in the Cape or KZN. Maybe you should state your profession and involvement for the viewers to understand where you are coming from.My 2c
Our common aim must be to expose all illegal fishing and raping the ocean as us/we recreationals are getting the blame.
Stand together guys with one voice we can make a difference. Some good research and cases cited here, keep up the good work!
Sorry, Reefs!
If you disagree then this would be a good time to ban me.
Thanks guys!Thanks Toppie
For this to succeed, let us unite - look past petty differences and work together.
jb2, nobody wants or is going to ban you. Remember, and so you will have noticed all over the forum - here we are a family enjoying our passion and working toward a common goal.
So my plea, its so obvious, if both you guys can stand together and complement each other you can move mountains!
Thanks guys!:corrct: Well now Toppie that is the post of the day! So true. United we stand divided......
For this to succeed, let us unite - look past petty differences and work together.
jb2, nobody wants or is going to ban you. Remember, and so you will have noticed all over the forum - here we are a family enjoying our passion and working toward a common goal.
So my plea, its so obvious, if both you guys can stand together and complement each other you can move mountains!
I am told that this Macasser Seine Netter has had his license revoked and then reinstated in the past for this kind of thing. Apparently he also does A LOT of night fishing - which is illegal.Hi Reaper
I would be quite interested to find out if he did have his license taken away, how he got it back.....
(http://www.colourbox.com/preview/3206281-973552-u-s-dollars-in-the-back-jeans-pocket.jpg)
If you know something, how about telling the forum? Seriously, we are all interested, it may well be of considerable value to this thread. (Most guys have no idea what the white boat is all about)Hi Robin
<:Hi Robin
Hi Robin
I would rather not go into too much detail on an open forum but do you think that there is a reason to be concerned?
What do you make of it?
I don't get your reluctance to share with the forum. You clearly know a lot about this incident. I took Toppies advice and was trying to encourage some co-operation with you. :dunno: I'm not playing this game with you.Hi Robin
As usual, you guys will be the first to hear whatever I hear.
If you know something, how about telling the forum? Seriously, we are all interested, it may well be of considerable value to this thread. (Most guys have no idea what the white boat is all about):corrct: :corrct:
If you know something, how about telling the forum? Seriously, we are all interested, it may well be of considerable value to this thread. (Most guys have no idea what the white boat is all about):corrct: :corrct:
Unless JB2 is involved in the investigation with the authorities, there is absolutely no reason to withhold info. Reading this thread it seems like he is here to firewall and protect these guys. Why else won't he enlighten us? It makes no sense to keep info that means something to everyone away other than to protect the perpetrators. A forum is a place to meet and share info, not collect info, rebut comments that you don't agree with, attack other members and then offer little back in the way of what you know.
Some guys just don't get it.
I agree JB2, if you raise a point don't leave it hanging in the air. We are all on the same side and our interest is to prove that it is not us recreationals destroying the fish stocks. If it was worth hinting then please share with the forum. If it wasn't worth mentioning forever keep your silence and please don't do so again, least we will suspect that you might have an ulterior agenda.
I agree JB2, if you raise a point don't leave it hanging in the air. We are all on the same side and our interest is to prove that it is not us recreationals destroying the fish stocks. If it was worth hinting then please share with the forum. If it wasn't worth mentioning forever keep your silence and please don't do so again, least we will suspect that you might have an ulterior agenda.
I had assumed that Robin knew what was going on or had some background or more information.
I was wrong.
I agree JB2, if you raise a point don't leave it hanging in the air. We are all on the same side and our interest is to prove that it is not us recreationals destroying the fish stocks. If it was worth hinting then please share with the forum. If it wasn't worth mentioning forever keep your silence and please don't do so again, least we will suspect that you might have an ulterior agenda.
I had assumed that Robin knew what was going on or had some background or more information.
I was wrong.
Whats with the attacking of RobinF? I been around long enough to know that based on the comments that I see, he knows more than you, why else do you have to mention him in almost every post you make?
The only harm to the recreationals here is this 'divide and conquer' tactic that these two guys are trying. Stand together guys, no-one hurts the recreationals by exposing illegal fishing. Illegal fishing in the same grounds that we share. See these posts for what they are. Clearly RobinF is getting under some people's skin, and unless they can prove with facts that he is wrong, then maybe they need to be quiet. As a peanut once said - because you take away from everyone and your own credibility.
So here we go again, to the one that likes to call me a liar and the other one that calls me 'onredelik' look at these photos taken at Strandfontein recently. See what they raped??? OUR WHITE STEENBRAS STOCKS! Call me what you like, how can anyone defend this? Guys, this is a disgrace. Actually, it's a tragedy. This is why Trek netting should be banned.
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Ziggy i think it's ALL about credibility on any of the pages on this forum.... If you started a thread about Fishing for Tigerfish and just sucked things out of your thumb and sold them as facts, i would hope someone with some knowledge about the subject would say so....
Ziggy i think it's ALL about credibility on any of the pages on this forum.... If you started a thread about Fishing for Tigerfish and just sucked things out of your thumb and sold them as facts, i would hope someone with some knowledge about the subject would say so....
This thread is teaching me nothing about my favourite past time. Yes, its always good to debate ethics and conservation - however, this thread is mainly about the scoring of points. Of course the issue of who is credible or not is continually raised.
I did a comparison of the main contributors to this thread namely Robin F and jb2 to check their "UA participation credibility" - and it is interesting what comes out.
Robin contributes across the forums and has made some great posts that are intersting. However jb2 has only contributed to 4 threads - and mostly in a non-collegial manner.
Robin F - total of 274 posts (150 re the seine netters)
jb2 - total of 88 posts (75 in the seine netters
Robin has 20 creds - and jb2 has zero
So, I am wondering what jb2 is doing on this forum really - his motivation is clearly not about advancing our angling knowledge
Look at the posts made by both of them (number of posts and nae of post)
RobinF has contributed to my knowledge of fishing and engages with UA "nice nice":
- 150 Seinne netters and catchers
- 21 Knysna Estuary
- 9 Beautiful Knysna
- 8 Seine Netters at Strandfontein and how they beat the Law
- 7 Christiaan Brits banned for life
- 7 Banning the removal of Sandvlei fish
- 7 Knysna - Watch this space.
- 5 Ezemvelo meet Concerned Parties Regarding Vetches Seinne Netting
- 4 Fishfinder
- 4 Kalk bay area
- 3 Super Bru - Super 15
- 3 Guidelines on how to catch and release
- 3 Rough beach launch at Vaal
- 3 My new baby
- 2 Whats on your boat - safety equipment
- 2 Lucky draw
- 2 KZN offshore
- 2 Help ID this ray
- 2 Stumpie
- 2 Did he really call his boat this?
- 2 I Will NEVER Keep A Saltwater Fish Ever Again
- 2 UA anglers of the futre
- 1 tony re jess
- 1 last rhinos killed
- 1 New clothing orders
- 1 Rattler lures
- 1 attacking a spear fisherman
- 1 why I don’t surf
- 1 Hydrowave
- 1 Armed robbery
- 1 R+S reports E Cape
- 1 Fishing for Garrick using artificial fish
- 1 Camo good for SANDF
- 1 SOME OF THE RECENT FISH ON THE GO FISH TRIPS
- 1 RIP Caleb
- 1 Engine trouble
- 1 ORI taggers
- 1 Fishing licence?
- 1 UA hits 4000
- 1 Boat insurance
- 1 Southern cape revistied
- 1 Light tackle lure fishing for these locations
- 1 Red Steenbraas
- 1 Catch and photo release
- 1 what engines would you choose
- 1 Please be careful guys
jb2 (not one of the posts has contributed to my knowledge of fishing):
- 75 Seine netters and catchers
- 2 Small scale fishing community areas
- 5 May I call for a boycott
- 6 Christiaan Brits banned for life
Good analysis and comparison Ziggy!
This thread is teaching me nothing about my favourite past time. Yes, its always good to debate ethics and conservation - however, this thread is mainly about the scoring of points. Of course the issue of who is credible or not is continually raised.
I did a comparison of the main contributors to this thread namely Robin F and jb2 to check their "UA participation credibility" - and it is interesting what comes out.
Robin contributes across the forums and has made some great posts that are intersting. However jb2 has only contributed to 4 threads - and mostly in a non-collegial manner.
Robin F - total of 274 posts (150 re the seine netters)
jb2 - total of 88 posts (75 in the seine netters
Robin has 20 creds - and jb2 has zero
So, I am wondering what jb2 is doing on this forum really - his motivation is clearly not about advancing our angling knowledge
Look at the posts made by both of them (number of posts and nae of post)
RobinF has contributed to my knowledge of fishing and engages with UA "nice nice":
- 150 Seinne netters and catchers
- 21 Knysna Estuary
- 9 Beautiful Knysna
- 8 Seine Netters at Strandfontein and how they beat the Law
- 7 Christiaan Brits banned for life
- 7 Banning the removal of Sandvlei fish
- 7 Knysna - Watch this space.
- 5 Ezemvelo meet Concerned Parties Regarding Vetches Seinne Netting
- 4 Fishfinder
- 4 Kalk bay area
- 3 Super Bru - Super 15
- 3 Guidelines on how to catch and release
- 3 Rough beach launch at Vaal
- 3 My new baby
- 2 Whats on your boat - safety equipment
- 2 Lucky draw
- 2 KZN offshore
- 2 Help ID this ray
- 2 Stumpie
- 2 Did he really call his boat this?
- 2 I Will NEVER Keep A Saltwater Fish Ever Again
- 2 UA anglers of the futre
- 1 tony re jess
- 1 last rhinos killed
- 1 New clothing orders
- 1 Rattler lures
- 1 attacking a spear fisherman
- 1 why I don’t surf
- 1 Hydrowave
- 1 Armed robbery
- 1 R+S reports E Cape
- 1 Fishing for Garrick using artificial fish
- 1 Camo good for SANDF
- 1 SOME OF THE RECENT FISH ON THE GO FISH TRIPS
- 1 RIP Caleb
- 1 Engine trouble
- 1 ORI taggers
- 1 Fishing licence?
- 1 UA hits 4000
- 1 Boat insurance
- 1 Southern cape revistied
- 1 Light tackle lure fishing for these locations
- 1 Red Steenbraas
- 1 Catch and photo release
- 1 what engines would you choose
- 1 Please be careful guys
jb2 (not one of the posts has contributed to my knowledge of fishing):
- 75 Seine netters and catchers
- 2 Small scale fishing community areas
- 5 May I call for a boycott
- 6 Christiaan Brits banned for life
Robin when i show you you are wrong i'm being trivial.... there is more than ample proof you have been to eager to jump the gun before checking facts on a number of occasions or using a bit too much artistic freedom when stating something as fact.
You have a cause that many will follow blindly.... i won't, but it doesnt mean i don't think that what is happing is wrong.
Ziggy you nailed it....The goal is not to become the biggest forum around, but rather to provide the most professional, highest quality Angling Info, the last part here is what i mean.... Robin has often enough given info as fact, when it is everything EXCEPT quality or accurate info.
He is eroding the moral high ground that recreationals could have. 1stly by blindly believing treknetters are all from the devil and should be burnt at the stake, and secondly by ignoring the fact that recreationals and other factors also have a massive influence.
JB2 is correct on this - that I contacted him. He seemed to be pro seine netting and I was inclined to be against the seine netting practice. So I did my research, I asked him to enlighten me, to make an unbiased conclussion. Help me to know the truth if you will. After considerable research, I found that the seine netters as a whole transgress the law a lot. I have made suggestions that these guys should have a governing board of sorts to manage the image of this type of fishing. That they should be held accountable as a whole not just as individuals...That's just the start.Hi Robin
No, I have not been on this ground for two weeks, actually it's been a while, and yet it feels like ages when I think of all the destruction that I have seen by these guys.
Hi ReaperThis thread is teaching me nothing about my favourite past time. Yes, its always good to debate ethics and conservation - however, this thread is mainly about the scoring of points. Of course the issue of who is credible or not is continually raised.
I did a comparison of the main contributors to this thread namely Robin F and jb2 to check their "UA participation credibility" - and it is interesting what comes out.
Robin contributes across the forums and has made some great posts that are intersting. However jb2 has only contributed to 4 threads - and mostly in a non-collegial manner.
Robin F - total of 274 posts (150 re the seine netters)
jb2 - total of 88 posts (75 in the seine netters
Robin has 20 creds - and jb2 has zero
So, I am wondering what jb2 is doing on this forum really - his motivation is clearly not about advancing our angling knowledge
Look at the posts made by both of them (number of posts and nae of post)
RobinF has contributed to my knowledge of fishing and engages with UA "nice nice":
- 150 Seinne netters and catchers
- 21 Knysna Estuary
- 9 Beautiful Knysna
- 8 Seine Netters at Strandfontein and how they beat the Law
- 7 Christiaan Brits banned for life
- 7 Banning the removal of Sandvlei fish
- 7 Knysna - Watch this space.
- 5 Ezemvelo meet Concerned Parties Regarding Vetches Seinne Netting
- 4 Fishfinder
- 4 Kalk bay area
- 3 Super Bru - Super 15
- 3 Guidelines on how to catch and release
- 3 Rough beach launch at Vaal
- 3 My new baby
- 2 Whats on your boat - safety equipment
- 2 Lucky draw
- 2 KZN offshore
- 2 Help ID this ray
- 2 Stumpie
- 2 Did he really call his boat this?
- 2 I Will NEVER Keep A Saltwater Fish Ever Again
- 2 UA anglers of the futre
- 1 tony re jess
- 1 last rhinos killed
- 1 New clothing orders
- 1 Rattler lures
- 1 attacking a spear fisherman
- 1 why I don’t surf
- 1 Hydrowave
- 1 Armed robbery
- 1 R+S reports E Cape
- 1 Fishing for Garrick using artificial fish
- 1 Camo good for SANDF
- 1 SOME OF THE RECENT FISH ON THE GO FISH TRIPS
- 1 RIP Caleb
- 1 Engine trouble
- 1 ORI taggers
- 1 Fishing licence?
- 1 UA hits 4000
- 1 Boat insurance
- 1 Southern cape revistied
- 1 Light tackle lure fishing for these locations
- 1 Red Steenbraas
- 1 Catch and photo release
- 1 what engines would you choose
- 1 Please be careful guys
jb2 (not one of the posts has contributed to my knowledge of fishing):
- 75 Seine netters and catchers
- 2 Small scale fishing community areas
- 5 May I call for a boycott
- 6 Christiaan Brits banned for life
:+ cred: ......Can there be a post of the month? If so, this is it.