SEINE NETTERS AND CATCHERS

[jb2]

Fish sold inland gets a very good price and is worth the effort

Hi 2 bar
I realise that but you must mean fish in insulated containers or on ice in bins.
It is not that important since Robin had said that he did not mean that the fish was actually sent to Gauteng so we could leave it if you prefer.

I have personally driven a load of snoek to JHB from CT in a bakkie during the night in a canopied bakkie with ice...No problem at all ;)
Not much ice btw

Yup.
But would you do 2 bins undersize?

If I was a poacher and the price was right??? Definitely. Do you know what price fresh kob fetches? You'll be very surprised

Hi 2bar
Just so that we are clear. No fish went to Gauteng. Robin sort of invented that.
But it is an interesting exercise.
2 bins undersize kob is probably around 60 kg's max.
Diesel to JHB is around 5 to 6 tanks of a diesel bakkie if not more
You are looking at R4000 worth of fuel.

[RobinF]

Sorry to ruin the day, but fish did go and continues to go to Gauteng. I don't need to make anything up, it's all there. 

[2bar.boost]

Ive seen R74 per kg in CT for fresh kob, what price do you think that   translates to in "JHB" price? Even if it didnt happen...its still viable   to make the trip imho

I'm done. Cheers

[RobinF]

Ive seen R74 per kg in CT for fresh kob, what price do you think that   translates to in "JHB" price? Even if it didnt happen...its still viable   to make the trip imho

I'm done. Cheers

Thanks 2bar.boost....Me too!

[jb2]

Sorry to ruin the day, but fish did go and continues to go to Gauteng. I don't need to make anything up, it's all there.

Hi Robin
How do I say this nicely.
Just so we are clear. You said that the fish in the bakkie in the photo went to Gauteng.
 
I accept that fish goes all over the place but for the sake of accuracy, the fish in the bakkie did not go to Gauteng.
I know who bought the size fish and I know what happened to the undersize  so answer carefully.
 

[jb2]

Ive seen R74 per kg in CT for fresh kob, what price do you think that   translates to in "JHB" price? Even if it didnt happen...its still viable   to make the trip imho

I'm done. Cheers

Thanks 2bar.boost....Me too!

OK
 
So to recap after two pages of discussing fish logistics!
It now appears that the guy in the uniform was not a DAFF official.
The fact that the bakkie trackers don't put the guy at Macassar seems to make sense.
We went off a bit too quickly on the "DAFF officials were on the scene" story but it is a good lesson in checking the facts.

[jaenswart]

This whole topic stink of corruption and involvement . I don't buy any if it

[jb2]

This whole topic stink of corruption and involvement . I don't buy any if it

Hi Jaen
Who do you suspect?

[RobinF]

I really hope that we will see more coverage of this kind of thing. The more the press gets involved, the better. This situation needs to be highlighted and thus pressure will be applied onto the authorities. (The fact is that this should never have happened in the first place and I cannot help but wonder why this Trek Netter felt so brazen and confident about doing what he did - the whole thing stinks.) Sorry about the quality of the article.

[Marthin]

 

Robin i believe this lot is much worse than the much publisized strandfontein crew.  They know during the week there is virtually nobody where they can trek vs strandfontein that ALWAYS pulls a crowd.

The same with Melkbos, their licence in summer states they can be in the water from 04:30.  Almost nobody on the beach at that time, and when the first people are on the beach they are packing up already.

(Tried to add the picture but my browzer minimizes it).

[jb2]

I really hope that we will see more coverage of this kind of thing. The more the press gets involved, the better. This situation needs to be highlighted and thus pressure will be applied onto the authorities. (The fact is that this should never have happened in the first place and I cannot help but wonder why this Trek Netter felt so brazen and confident about doing what he did - the whole thing stinks.) Sorry about the quality of the article.

Hi Robin
If you are unsure of why the Macassar trek was so brazen, consider who is the owner of the white boat with the orange interior and even the net.
Surely that should speak books!
There are more mundane reasons as well but the white boat is a giveaway!

[RobinF]

Marthin has made a good point here. There's two issues here:

1) It leads back to the authorities. The authorities are supposed to be notified about the treks and because a trek does not happen everyday, there is little reason for the authorities not to be present. It's actually inexcusable when there is more and more anger and frustration around this type of fishing that the DAFF guys don't show a face there.

2) And the then there is the issue of 'professionalism'. Ok, the Trek/Seine Netters (All of them) don't portray themselves as being very professional, they have a responsibility to conserve what they surely would like to pass onto their kids? I guess in my mind the main issue on this point is - "You've been afforded the privilege that few have. Employment and a food source. Protect that source, act responsibly and do what is right" - or else

What should happen right now is that the guy at Macasser should have his license suspended until an outcome is found. The fact is that the evidence is there, it's not like we need witnesses and statements only. When found guilty, that license should be revoked. And then if it is a rights issue, then give the rights to someone that won't break the law. Screen the guys, read them the riot act, make them understand that there is massive consequences for breaking the law. If the price paid is greater than the rewards for breaking the law, this should not happen.   

[jb2]

Marthin has made a good point here. There's two issues here:

1) It leads back to the authorities. The authorities are supposed to be notified about the treks and because a trek does not happen everyday, there is little reason for the authorities not to be present. It's actually inexcusable when there is more and more anger and frustration around this type of fishing that the DAFF guys don't show a face there.

2) And the then there is the issue of 'professionalism'. Ok, the Trek/Seine Netters (All of them) don't portray themselves as being very professional, they have a responsibility to conserve what they surely would like to pass onto their kids? I guess in my mind the main issue on this point is - "You've been afforded the privilege that few have. Employment and a food source. Protect that source, act responsibly and do what is right" - or else

What should happen right now is that the guy at Macasser should have his license suspended until an outcome is found. The fact is that the evidence is there, it's not like we need witnesses and statements only. When found guilty, that license should be revoked. And then if it is a rights issue, then give the rights to someone that won't break the law. Screen the guys, read them the riot act, make them understand that there is massive consequences for breaking the law. If the price paid is greater than the rewards for breaking the law, this should not happen.

Hi Robin
You make a very valid point but we are still faced with the reappearance of the white boat if another crew takes over that does not have their own gear.
How do we deal with that scenario.
If you are like me then you shiver from looking at that distinctive cork line as well.
What can be done? Some kind of alternative support?
Any suggestions?

[Marthin]

Make the DAFF presence mandatory... as far as i know it was just a kind of agreement.

If the right is revoked and handed to the next person, it's simple if you and your crew break the rules, it get's handed to the next in line.

All confiscated/dead/handed over fish get's distributed in Vrygrond or another designated place of need.

[jb2]

Make the DAFF presence mandatory... as far as i know it was just a kind of agreement.

If the right is revoked and handed to the next person, it's simple if you and your crew break the rules, it get's handed to the next in line.

All confiscated/dead/handed over fish get's distributed in Vrygrond or another designated place of need.

Hi Marthin
The SMS to the inspector before trekking is already mandatory. There are so few inspectors around that they are not able to come out.
Getting the fish to the scientists has been streamlined by getting the inspectors to contact the scientists directly.
My wife gives our unneeded children's clothes and toys to an AIDS orphan  tehuis in Ottery. I personally think that is a better destination for the fish than a hole in the ground.

[RobinF]

As noble a suggestion as it is to donate the fish, I'll say what most are probably (I said probably and most, so not everyone) thinking - it's another chance for money to change hands. I wish that I did not have to think like that, but I am sure there is a reason why they don't allow the fish to be donated.

[Marthin]

correct robin i don't think it doesnt bring it's own issues, any "welfare" case does, our lottery system is a prime example and maybe it's maladministration is space for another thread

I just can't handle the fact that one entire load that i know of was destined to be "destroyed" by having them throw it in a hole and cover it up!!!!! The fish are dead now, people are dying of hunger across the road, but we rather dump the stuff?

[jb2]

As noble a suggestion as it is to donate the fish, I'll say what most are probably (I said probably and most, so not everyone) thinking - it's another chance for money to change hands. I wish that I did not have to think like that, but I am sure there is a reason why they don't allow the fish to be donated.

Hi Robin
The problem is a total lack of a coherent bycatch policy at DAFF. In some sectors undersize is dumped at sea (inshore trawl  I think) Dumping is illegal as well so you can't keep it and you can't dump it.
In other sectors is taken and sold but no charges are laid. Keep in mind that this is normal operational bycatch where no targeting is suspected. (The MLRA does not allow for fish to be taken without charges being laid and the sales and payment of the proceeds into the Marine Living Resources Fund is illegal. )
There are a lot of complaints about this since the boat prepares the fish for market and is not compensated for its work. The common answer is that the boat will just start keeping the fish in diesel.
We had used an annualised assesement of bycatch but which would mean that bycatch anomalies of fish that may legally be sold were retained by the vessel. That meant fewer illegal sales by DAFF and was unpopular.
The bycatch that is "seized" is also "auctioned" by the local inspector by inviting 3 or so email bids. Imagine what happens with 3 bins of kingklip up for auction under the hand of an inspector. HOOOOOOWWWWWWEEEEEE!
 
In trekking it has to be handed over to the inspectors but the fish would not always be collected timeously.
The reason that DAFF offered for not allowing the fish to be handed to a charitable institution is that if there were any health issues for the fish then DAFF would be liable.
 

[RobinF]

correct robin i don't think it doesnt bring it's own issues, any "welfare" case does, our lottery system is a prime example and maybe it's maladministration is space for another thread

I just can't handle the fact that one entire load that i know of was destined to be "destroyed" by having them throw it in a hole and cover it up!!!!! The fish are dead now, people are dying of hunger across the road, but we rather dump the stuff?

On this, I agree with you 100%.

[Marthin]

weather it's treknetters, steenbras at koeberg with recreationals, inshore trawlers dumping bycatch or targetting snoek, recromercials nailing the smooth hounds and spotties at strand reefs, bossiekob at kalkbay harbour or abalone poachers at melkbos....

It all boils down to one thing for me... Ineffectiveness of DAFF.  We can make rules introduce bans or do whatever we like....  If you get the trekkies banned, they will just end up "steek net" between the strand reefs.  They might get into trouble with some locals already doing it.  Or start doing something else.

Because there is no as in NONE effective policeing going on at the moment.  Ban whatever we want, it's as effective as a bandaid on open heart surgery.  Get DAFF/DOFF to just effectively police the current bans/restrictions that are in place, and i'll support any going forward...