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Topic: LINE TWIST - Taking control of line twist and Wind knots.  (Read 29082 times)

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Offline REEFMAN

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LINE TWIST - Taking control of line twist and Wind knots.
« on: January 23, 2011, 09:34:54 pm »
LINE TWIST and WIND KNOTS

Using Spinning Reels with Braid.
Spinning reel = Fixed Spool reel = coffee grinder

Wind knots are bit of a misnomer, as they are only sometimes caused by the wind - which blows slack line over and across the top of the rod during a cast, so that it catches a rod guide with a loop. This stops line dead in it's tracks.
But, theoretically, they are associated primarily with how the line is wound onto the spool... any loose line loops or line laid out of sequence will cause a wind knot in the cast.

The Braid Clump Frustration
Many an angling session has been ruined when an angler becomes plagued with 'Wind knots'. The clump of braid that becomes jammed around one of the rod guides during a cast is the source of much frustration. Once the angler has spent considerable time unpicking the knotted tangle, tempers quickly flare when, on the very next cast, the same thing happens.  Unfortunately the problem is not going to just disappear. The root cause needs to be found and treated.

Line twist is a major cause of knots or line tangles when using a Spinning reel loaded with braid. Due to the fact that braid has little or no memory, whatever you do to the line, it will tend to stay that way. Unlike nylon - where if you twist nylon, it's memory will cause it to spring back to it's original shape. Not so with braid... twist it, and it will stay twisted, until you physically untwist it.

Casting a Spinning reel (or Coffee Grinder) is easy the first few throws! No overwinds to contend with like a multiplier reel! But continue casting with a Spinning reel and winding the line on for an hour or so, and pretty soon the braid is going to jump off the spool like it has a mind of it's own, and during a cast, either:

    * knot itself round a rod guide,
    * knot itself round a rod guide, snap off in mid air along with your expensive lure, or
    * knot itself round a rod guide, snap off in mid air along with your expensive lure, and take a guide clean off your rod with it!

So what is line twist?

To really understand what Line Twist is, we need to have a better understanding of how a Spinning reel works.



How spinning reels work.

The spool of a Spinning reel is fixed - it does not move. The Rotor of the reel attaches to the Bail mechanism, which catches the line through the line roller and lays it down onto the fixed spool by rotating around the spool, at the same time moving up and down in order to spread the line evenly.

Line twist is caused by the very nature of Spinning reels.

The line coming straight down the rod onto the reel, is then bent at 90 degrees, and laid down in a rotating pattern onto the spool. This causes an unavoidable twist tension on the line. Some of the better, more expensive reels like the Shimano Stella range and the Daiwa Saltiga's, have built in systems to try minimize this line twist... "Twistbuster" from Daiwa and "Aero wrap" from Shimano are marvellous inventions that help reduce Line twist. However, it is mechanically impossible to rotate line through 90 deg, without twisting it to some degree. So every Spinning reel's rotational bail arm mechanism causes a certain amount of line twist - it is impossible to stop it completely.



So most reels will automatically cause a little Line twist. But over time, this line twist gets worse on every retrieve until the dreaded Wind knot occurs. It is important to recognize the causes of this excessive line twist before it causes a catastrophe!

Visual inspection of a spool from time to time will tell a story...

Twisted line, loose wraps and uneven laying of the line are sure signs of a disaster waiting to happen!



 

By pulling some line off the spool and allowing it to lie slack, will also give important pointers of how twisted the line already is...





What causes Line twist?

 

    * The first cause is incorrectly spooled line.

By spooling a reel using the manufacturers recommended methods, one can decrease the amount of Line twist associated with winding line onto the spool.
Most manufacturers recommend that the new spool of line is attached to the reel and then the line is simply reeled on while the spool of line rotates. But by using this method, line twist still occurs by approximately 1 twist of line per turn of the handle. This is negligible to start with, but this is where the rot starts, and these twists will quickly build up and increase with time.

The best way to spool new braid onto a Spinning reel to minimize any Line twist is to do the following:
       
          o Thread the new braid through the tip eye and down towards the reel.
          o Attach the line to the reel with a Fig 8 knot and tape the first loop   of braid down onto the spool with sellotape to stop it from ever   slipping. (I find it completely unnecessary to use a length of mono under   the braid topshot - the sellotape does the trick and cuts out 2 more   unnecessary joins... mono to braid.)
          o Lay the new line spool down on the ground flat and horizontal with the label up.
          o Fix it to the ground with a large nail and a washer, so that it can't rotate.
          o Keeping tension on the line with left thumb and forefinger (use a glove if necessary), wind the new line onto the reel, keeping the tension reasonably tight.

       

      What this now accomplishes:

Most reels - the bail arm turns clockwise (looking from the front of the reel). Therefore the line is laid down in a clockwise pattern. To stop the line twisting anywhere, it must come off the new line spool in exactly the same pattern - and that is anti-clockwise if you're looking at the label of the new line spool. (or clockwise if you're looking at it in the same plane as if you were looking at the reel).

The line is now laid onto the reel in exactly the same way that it comes off the new line spool, passively - with minimum rotation and line twist.

 

Other causes of Line twist and Wind knots

The next most common cause of Wind knots is an overfilled reel. The spool of a spinning reel has a lip on the front end, over which the line must run smoothly. Too much line on the spool causes loose loops of line to slip off the spool - these catch the line that is coming off the spool from the cast, and causes tangles.
The spool should be filled to 2-3mm BELOW the lip.






Equipment Quality

The quality of the reel plays a large part in preventing these tangles in braid.
Newer, better quality reels have a few features that are designed to minimize the problem.
 

    * The spool is slightly tapered towards the front, causing a cone angle that allows line to flow freely off the spool when casting.
    * Many of the better reels now come with additional washers than can be added underneath the spool, to the spool drive shaft - these can vary the angle of laying down line on the spool. A cone taper is optimal.




 

    * A long distance spool with a Tapered cone, showing correct line lay and the criss cross wrap of the Shimano Aero Wrap system.



 

    * The lip of the spool also has a taper on it, so that the line can run smoothly off the spool without being hindered by the lip.

 


 

    * Most of the good reels have the Auto-bail reset function removed from it.

The auto bail reset function is the mechanism that causes the reel's bail arm to engage or click back over once the reel handle is turned.
What happens with this mechanism, is that once a cast is made, there is a certain amount of slack line that develops once the lure hits the water. If the handle is now turned, the bail arm snaps over closed, and the loose loop of line is now wound onto the reel diagonally across the spool.
On the next cast, this loose loop of line causes a snag and a tangle will result.

It is advisable to have this function removed from your reel to stop this from happening.
Get into the habit of manually clicking over the bail arm as your lure hits the water. This ensures that the line is always kept under tension and that no loose loops are made on the reel - these loose loops are a disaster waiting to happen!.
 




In some of the cheaper reels, the force of the cast will cause the reel handle to move slightly forward, causing the bail arm to snap closed in mid-cast... when this happens you can say good bye to your lure, your leader and a portion of your expensive braid! This is called a snap off.

 

Slack line is a major cause of wind knots
 
 
Slack line occurs very often when an erratic retrieval motion is used, as in popping or in dropshotting, when a flick retrieve is used. Keep a steady eye on the line being laid onto the spool when fishing. Any diagonal pieces of line being laid down are a recipe for disaster.
The line coming off underneath this diagonal loop will cause it to be pulled off the reel out of sequence, and a tangle will result.
 
 
Thickness of braid on the Line roller
 
Some braids are thin enough to snag in the grooves of the line roller. This happens in cheaper reels without a Roller bearing, and most often when popping, when slack line is caused just after the pop.
This slack line can get snagged. If this happens, the cone angle of the line being laid down on the reel will be altered.
The line will most often not be laid all the way to the top (under the lip) and will overlay too much on the bottom of the spool, leaving a bulge of line at the bottom of the spool - this overlaying will result in line slipping off the curve created and a tangle will result on the next cast.
 
After every cast and retrieve, visually inspect the spool for line piling up in the wrong place, for diagonal loops and that the line is laying properly in the trough of the Line roller.

 
Swivels
 
Some anglers swear by swivels, maintaining that it helps prevent line twist -  the swivel twists rather than the line.
This is all good and well, however one needs to be very careful with the quality of the swivel and the size.
The lighter line braids will not put enough torque onto an oversized swivel and therefore it will not turn.
Rule of thumb is that the swivel wire should be a similar thickness to your braid diameter... ie: small!
Because the swivels that will work properly with light braid are therefore very small, they need to be high quality to prevent breakage under strain.
 
Barrel swivels in this instance are not good enough. One needs to invest in good quality power swivels.
 
 
Fish taking line on drag
 
The quickest way to mess your entire spool up with Line twist is to turn the handle while the reel is going backwards in reverse. ie: if a fish is taking line, DO NOT reel while the spool is moving. Each wind of the handle will put on average 5 twists into the line!
 

Lures
 
Not all lures swim the way they are supposed to. Some, like spoons, will turn round and round in the water causing Line twist. This is where a decent swivel will help to minimize the problem.
 
I am told that trolling a lure at the incorrect speed will cause the same problem in an offshore setting.
It is always a good idea to inspect the action of a lure at different speeds of retrieve to see how the speed affects the action.
 

Removing line twist
 
On a boat, this is easy... just lay the line out behind the boat (without any lure or weight attached) and let it unwrap itself as the boat moves forward.
 
In a Rock and Surf situation, it becomes more difficult.
You need to lay the line out into water, while walking along the beach, dragging it along as if it were being trolled. Keep laying the line out until the line twist is removed.
 
Make sure that on retrieval, that the line line is reeled back under a little tension between your thumb and forefinger.
 
 
Another method that is fairly successful -
Tie a swivel to a tree and then attach the line, walk backwards letting line off the reel.
Every 5 metres or so, take hold of the line and let it form a loop below the reel with no tension. If there is twist keep walking back (with a bit of tension on the line, so that the swivel will unspin the line twist) until the line does not form a twist when tested.
 
Then using a cloth, pinch the line between your thumb and forefinger, and wind it back on the reel, keeping the line under tension as you move forward. This method works best if you use a good quality ball-bearing swivel.

Now is not a good time to go fishing... said nobody... EVER!!

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Offline REEFMAN

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Re: LINE TWIST - Taking control of line twist and Wind knots.
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2011, 04:46:46 pm »
In conclusion, Line-twist is one of those problems that usually arises when some attention to the details of using a Spinning reel is ignored.

Hopefully, this article will help someone out there to have a more hassle free fishing experience, and to beat the dreaded curse of the Wind Knot!

With the advent of Fuji anti-tangle guides, KR Concept and so forth, this problem should be a thing of the past. If you're diligent with the stuff above and still suffering, then change the guides on your rod. You'll never look back.


Best fishes!

Now is not a good time to go fishing... said nobody... EVER!!

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Offline WalkersKiller

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Re: LINE TWIST - Taking control of line twist and Wind knots.
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2011, 04:51:50 pm »
Super post Reefz  :tkx:  :win:  (clap)

Offline SAfish

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Re: LINE TWIST - Taking control of line twist and Wind knots.
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2011, 04:59:15 pm »
Another brilliant post, Coach!  (clap)  :uarocks :ult:

Offline Cam Mundy

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Re: LINE TWIST - Taking control of line twist and Wind knots.
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2011, 07:46:32 pm »
Excellent post  :happ: the one thing that you forgot to mention is that a wind knot will almost always occur as soon as you spot the fish swimming by.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2011, 07:46:45 pm by Cam Mundy »

Offline MIKE PIKE

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Re: LINE TWIST - Taking control of line twist and Wind knots.
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2011, 07:59:31 pm »
 (clap) ... Ultimate post Tony..now wheres that cred button. :tkx:

Offline ProKayak

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Re: LINE TWIST - Taking control of line twist and Wind knots.
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2011, 10:03:48 pm »
 :tkx: :tkx: :tkx: :tkx: :tkx: :tkx: :tkx: 
 
a mill Reefs

Offline shamwari

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Re: LINE TWIST - Taking control of line twist and Wind knots.
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2011, 06:27:32 am »
Absolutely superb description, explanation, pictures and solutions  to wind knots ! Thank you !

Offline Fritz

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Re: LINE TWIST - Taking control of line twist and Wind knots.
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2011, 06:41:16 am »
 :win: Post their Tony. Its allways a pleasure reading thru your posts.

Offline John F

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Re: LINE TWIST - Taking control of line twist and Wind knots.
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2011, 07:09:51 am »
Monster post Reefs!

Thank you!

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Offline icstuff

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Re: LINE TWIST - Taking control of line twist and Wind knots.
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2011, 07:52:35 am »
 :win:
You where like, reading my thoughts man
 :tkx:
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Offline CLS

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Re: LINE TWIST - Taking control of line twist and Wind knots.
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2011, 08:01:11 am »
 :win: Thanks Reefs
A bad days fishing is better than sitting at home moping.

Offline Quickbite

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Re: LINE TWIST - Taking control of line twist and Wind knots.
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2011, 09:25:26 am »
 :uarocks - now Reefman gave me some work to do this weekend ...and i gota study

Offline ProKayak

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Re: LINE TWIST - Taking control of line twist and Wind knots.
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2011, 07:14:36 am »
:uarocks - now Reefman gave me some work to do this weekend ...and i gota study

 
EINA......
& I'm going to test this at Scottbugh
 
 fshg

Offline ProKayak

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Re: LINE TWIST - Taking control of line twist and Wind knots.
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2011, 08:46:23 am »
ADMIN WE NEED another "emotionconpic" here ......
 
STAMP OF APPROVAL !!!
 :tkx: :win:
 
 
Tried & tested, Thnx Mr Reefs
Got 2 small Blacktails & 3 other fish that I don't know  :hyst: :hyst: :hyst:
One amasing run, drag was 2 tight & it broke off
My dad caught a small Parrot fish
 
Only one wind knot for entire trip.

Offline REEFMAN

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Re: LINE TWIST - Taking control of line twist and Wind knots.
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2011, 08:51:19 am »
Good stuff Gawie... well done!  (clap)

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Offline shagnrelease

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Re: LINE TWIST - Taking control of line twist and Wind knots.
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2011, 09:14:06 am »
now this is a quality post!! well done reefz!! :ayb

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Re: LINE TWIST - Taking control of line twist and Wind knots.
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2011, 10:31:55 am »
Wow speechless....Cred to you Reefz!

Offline Kevinm40

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Re: LINE TWIST - Taking control of line twist and Wind knots.
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2014, 10:23:15 am »
Great post Reefz! :win:

I had endless problems with my first spinning kit Daiwa Exceller 4000Z + Daiwa Exceller SW 10'6 rod, had wind knots on almost every cast.  after breaking off several lures and cutting off lots of braid, i sold the kit, switched to Shimano Stradjic 5000 + Assasin Amia H (microwave guides) + goosen braid, casting like a pro, the areas i fish require long casts.  i figured the problem was more with how the braid packed on the reel when retrieved. 

Offline Spieks

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Re: LINE TWIST - Taking control of line twist and Wind knots.
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2014, 10:34:50 am »
 :tkx: Quality Tony!