SEINE NETTERS AND CATCHERS

[Seventenths]

  this thread is making me emotional!!!! Conservation or presevation. I agree and disagree with both parties here but I would like to note that Sea Shepard are idiots.... they are now targeting spearos with photoshoped images of a fish speared in a herons mouth, what idiots. Next you won't be able to eat a sustainable species if they have there way or damn can't you hear that carrot crying as you bite into it!!! Japanese vessels hunting whales does not constitute research - this I agree on but what does it have to do with Trekking?

Trek netters in the Cape need to be regulated and they need to treat the fish with respect (they should be shot for leaving fish lying in the hot sun and throwing them into the back of trucks bruising them) but they should be able to SUSTAINABLY fish or have their licences revoked - simple.

Be inspired and find out who Dr Sylvia Earle is and lets look at solutions.... as for 932 whales how much carbon emissions did they pour into our planet with their old uneconomical engines on the bunker guzzeling ship of theirs or is this the case of the lesser of two evils? and how do they calculate that thumb suck figure 932? that is a guesstimate and inaccurate like there attack on spearos...who's next catch and release anglers?

This is an emotional subject but if anyone is to blame it is failed policies, poor govenance and lack of people who stand up to what is truly wrong and turning a blind eye.

I am proud to say that most on this site do not,
but lets not lose out objectivity.

Blantant protectionism for the cuteness sake is rediculous, I dont see   these tree huggers trying to campaing for endangered snakes - there cute factor really generally sucks... dont see too many kids wanting to cuddle a pretty viper! Every brat want to swim with a dolphin or hug a panda!

What needs to be done is the price of the resources needs to be increased by reduce quota and control, title given to the stake holders so THEY have a vested interest to protect the resource and sustain it and their futures....Australia has sucesfully done this so if a bunch of convicts can do this (sorry to anyone this may offend!) but then so can we...

ok, I just fell of the soap box, but always interested to see what the rest of you have to say...

[rooiwil]

 

this thread is making me emotional!!!! Conservation or presevation. I agree and disagree with both parties here but I would like to note that Sea Shepard are idiots.... they are now targeting spearos with photoshoped images of a fish speared in a herons mouth, what idiots. Next you won't be able to eat a sustainable species if they have there way or damn can't you hear that carrot crying as you bite into it!!! Japanese vessels hunting whales does not constitute research - this I agree on but what does it have to do with Trekking?

Trek netters in the Cape need to be regulated and they need to treat the fish with respect (they should be shot for leaving fish lying in the hot sun and throwing them into the back of trucks bruising them) but they should be able to SUSTAINABLY fish or have their licences revoked - simple.

Be inspired and find out who Dr Sylvia Earle is and lets look at solutions.... as for 932 whales how much carbon emissions did they pour into our planet with their old uneconomical engines on the bunker guzzeling ship of theirs or is this the case of the lesser of two evils? and how do they calculate that thumb suck figure 932? that is a guesstimate and inaccurate like there attack on spearos...who's next catch and release anglers?

This is an emotional subject but if anyone is to blame it is failed policies, poor govenance and lack of people who stand up to what is truly wrong and turning a blind eye.

I am proud to say that most on this site do not,
but lets not lose out objectivity.

Blantant protectionism for the cuteness sake is rediculous, I dont see   these tree huggers trying to campaing for endangered snakes - there cute factor really generally sucks... dont see too many kids wanting to cuddle a pretty viper! Every brat want to swim with a dolphin or hug a panda!

What needs to be done is the price of the resources needs to be increased by reduce quota and control, title given to the stake holders so THEY have a vested interest to protect the resource and sustain it and their futures....Australia has sucesfully done this so if a bunch of convicts can do this (sorry to anyone this may offend!) but then so can we...

ok, I just fell of the soap box, but always interested to see what the rest of you have to say...

bru .....not getting off the subject of  netting...dolphins and whales mammals.....they are aware of themselves and us! dont want to get you hot under the collor....

[Marthin]

Well said seven tenths...

Sea Shepherd and other conservationists that follow suit, even if the cause is noble will make the "truth" more attractive in order to gain a larger following.

That is the problem, and as i said it erodes their credibility.  The we are right at all costs even if it's illegal attitude will not get desired results.

Recently in Namibia, they told blatant lies about the seal population.  Fellow groups showed pictures of the seal colononies before, and then showed pictures of the colony "destroyed and no seal left".  When one dug around a bit, the same group said the seals were gone and the colony destroyed in 2007, only to show pictures before the hunt in 2008 of the "pristine colony" about to be destroyed.

Now call me stupid... but i don't know how you destroy a colony in 2008. 2009. 2010. 2011 and 2012, that according to the save the seal friends you already destroyed in 2007.

Anycase.

Robin again as far as i know the Durban treks are done with a boat that has an engine on.  I don't know how they pull the net out, but in the western cape one it has to be by hand, unless light fades etc or something like that.

As for Nartjie or the others, all i'm saying is, if you make as if they are just evil you are lying. 

If you choose not to acknowledge that they don't keep any of the bronzies that they catch, where the sale of 1 set of fins would be more than the mullet they get only because the recreationals get upset, that they chose not to trek when the bay was full of undersize kob last season, you are wrong.  And you are empowering them, because other people acknowledge it, DAFF acknowledges it.

Like i said i'm yet to see the hook and cook falsebay squad stop fishing because the undersize kob are in the bay.

[Seventenths]

.....another forum thought they'd try to get under my skin by shooting shots at Sea Shepherd.......

now it is a lucrative money making racket. It needs to be stopped completely.

I guarantee you all, that in 15yrs time, we will all look at this form of fishing and think holy hell, did they really still do that in 2013? The saddest thing is that these operations may shut down from lack of fish before we get them stopped. Maybe I'm wrong, possibly the resources will survive, I really hope so.   

Point 1.... this should not get under you skin... I critisize Sea Sheppard in there erroneous ways but I also laud their aciehiments,

Point 2..... 100% ... the owners of these operations do very well whilst most of the guys helping them (fishing) live below the bread line...

Point 3....I hope you wrong...!

[RobinF]

The Japanese have a quota, a number that they 'announce' that they want to kill. This season it was 50 Humpbacks, 50 Fin whales and 935 Minke. The took no humpbacks, no fin whales and 103 Minkes. Thus, 1035 target less the 103 taken = 932 saved. Figures straight from the Japanese themselves. Sea Shepherd never thumb sucked that, sorry.

[RobinF]

As for Nartjie or the others, all i'm saying is, if you make as if they are just evil you are lying.


Please clarify this statement for me. When I state my opinion, how can I be lying? Are you saying that I am lying to myself?

[RobinF]

.....another forum thought they'd try to get under my skin by shooting shots at Sea Shepherd.......

now it is a lucrative money making racket. It needs to be stopped completely.

I guarantee you all, that in 15yrs time, we will all look at this form of fishing and think holy hell, did they really still do that in 2013? The saddest thing is that these operations may shut down from lack of fish before we get them stopped. Maybe I'm wrong, possibly the resources will survive, I really hope so.   

Point 1.... this should not get under you skin... I critisize Sea Sheppard in there erroneous ways but I also laud their aciehiments,

Point 2..... 100% ... the owners of these operations do very well whilst most of the guys helping them (fishing) live below the bread line...

Point 3....I hope you wrong...!

Note I said they 'tried'. Some guys aim it at me from time to time thinking that they will get to me, but for those that don't know, it really helps to enlighten people about Sea Shepherd and get them to look further.

Also Seventenths, I never try to force my opinions on people, I just state what i see and believe to be true. If you want to fire shots at Sea Shepherd, that is your choice. I honestly won't ever be offended.

[Shaun17]

Hijack in progress...
 

[Seventenths]

 

Hijack in progress...

very sorry...!

[2bar.boost]

I'm very against trekkers but I think the first step to make things better is improve on undersize survival and return instead of MCM having to confiscating 2 or 3 bakkies load of dead undersized
kob like the last time on strandfontein or the trekkers having the undersized carted away before official get there

[RobinF]

I agree 2bar. It is essentially managing a bad situation because the eradication is not an overnight process. That has been one of my biggest drives, make the authorities accountable. If the netters are 'policed' the bad apples will literally hand over the evidence and they can have their licenses revoked (I hope). The netters that choose to straighten up under threat of licenses being revoked will have to clean up.

The other big issue is why these guys don't or won't open the net up at the back and release the undersized or protected species? Maybe someone can enlighten on this? There is supposed to be a draw string attached which actually allows the net to be opened at the back for this exact reason. if it is because they are too lazy or if it is too much effort, then we are back to the fact that they do not deserve to be doing what they do. Anyone?

[Seventenths]

The Japanese have a quota, a number that they 'announce' that they want to kill. This season it was 50 Humpbacks, 50 Fin whales and 935 Minke. The took no humpbacks, no fin whales and 103 Minkes. Thus, 1035 target less the 103 taken = 932 saved. Figures straight from the Japanese themselves. Sea Shepherd never thumb sucked that, sorry.

sorry Shuan - last hi jack comment...

That all nice and factual... but would they have got all those whales, prob not.. look back, they have never acheived their targets, the interference helped but they can't claim to have saved that many cause we never will know how many the would have got in the first place. How long is a piece of string? I think they should rather anounce how many lost... like with the deplorable situation with the Rhino's.. again the govemnets fault!

That is the type of governmental maths that destroys our fish stocks in the first place.... Invalid claim - sorry. They were not there at every whales' side.

As to seine netters... shoot them all and all the people over populating the world and problem solved...

that includes all of us..! time for a  ...

[Parasite]

Wow Guys, slow down.
Here in KZN there is a group of us 60+ old okes that have been around the Durban Beach Front area our entire live's. Years ago the netting of fish sustained many families financially and as a source of protein, however over the years this has fallen away, and the licence to net is owned by one individual, unmarried with a daughter studing at Collage. He is extremely wealthy and is not dependant on fishing to support him and his daughter financially.
We have heard through reliable resources that his catches made of date are for the export market, the by-catch is sold locally. They, on their own accord, in breach of their licence took to netting using a motorised rubber duck, using the "netting of sardines"as a reason. Post sardine season they continued to use the motorised craft until an objection was lodged whereby they were informed that the conditions of the licence stipulated that they may only set the nets from a rowing water craft.
They knowingly target fish in abundance such as juvenile shad, small shoal snoek, ox-eye tarpin etc hauling them up onto the beach. by the net full, not for sustainability to send their children to school or whater nonsence has been mentioned, but for financial gain. Approached by the media they refute these allegations saying that should the catch be prohibited, they cut their net to release the fish, something no netter would ever do. We have also mention the possibility of a "draw string"net pocket that they can open should the catch need to be released, but they ignore this.They are very aggressive should you wish to take pictures of their haul or even question them regarding the legality of their catch. KZN Parks Board say that without proof, the netters act within the perameters of their permit. Now at this stage there are accusations flying around, but cannot be publically posted as there is no proof, so the next best thing is to take this issue to the "people of South Africa". Now, this thread is not about eating carrots or whatever, it is about maintaining the dwindling eco system within an area, an eco system that is important to an area, Durban Beach.

[Marthin]

Parasite... rest assured, i said from the start after hearing the facts about the Durban trek, that i support Robin and any other person that are acting against it.  I'm in cape town and can not attend any meetings there, but if there is anything i could assist with i would do so.

It is clear if you look at their catches they are specifically targetting undersize shoaling fish.  Again the difference between that and Cape Town treks, down here, when there were only undersize fish around the trekking rights holders stopped trekking until they were told they smaller fish anomaly had moved off.

[RobinF]

Parasite... rest assured, i said from the start after hearing the facts about the Durban trek, that i support Robin and any other person that are acting against it.  I'm in cape town and can not attend any meetings there, but if there is anything i could assist with i would do so.

It is clear if you look at their catches they are specifically targetting undersize shoaling fish.  Again the difference between that and Cape Town treks, down here, when there were only undersize fish around the trekking rights holders stopped trekking until they were told they smaller fish anomaly had moved off.

I'll find out the facts regarding the 1000 undersized Cob in Naartjie's freezer and post it. I see no difference between the two when both are guilty of the same offence.

[Marthin]

Robin here's a question.

If you happen to be a commercial with stipulations that you have to hand over undersize fish to the closest official  what do you do if:

1.  The official takes note of you having the fish, but does not want to take posession of the fish?

2.  Where would YOU keep 1000 undersize cob if no official is available to hand it over to?

[RobinF]

Robin here's a question.

If you happen to be a commercial with stipulations that you have to hand over undersize fish to the closest official  what do you do if:

1.  The official takes note of you having the fish, but does not want to take posession of the fish?

2.  Where would YOU keep 1000 undersize cob if no official is available to hand it over to?

I called the DAFF officials and they say that Naartjie's case is on the role. So however we speculate about how he can plead his innocence, we will see when the law eventually takes it course. In both your questions, it's implied that DAFF is at fault. Why would they note it and then charge him?

I must admit, if he uses one of the above as an excuse, I am sure he will get cooked.

[Parasite]

The ruling here is that any fish caught as "by-catch" regardless a prohibited species, or under size has to be returned to the water, even dead. The Netter is then required, as stipulated in terms of their permit to record EVERYTHING caught in their net, even those dead fish returned to the water.
The issue here, we say, is that they willfully target these fish with the knowledge that the bulk of the haul will be undersized, they don't declare the catch and quantity, and remove the fish for market.
So now the Board is saying "well, give us proof that they are in breach of the permit" since their register shows no such events are taking place and the Netter states that the undersized fish are all returned to the water ???????
Guys, work with us here, any catch you witness, take photos and post to Ken in KZN with PICS, dates, times etc and they will compare it against the netter register. Do the same in the Cape, regardless how small or whatever is in their nets.
I tried a year back to do this through the media supplying photos and facts, the photos were not published, the letter, although published was heavly editored, and a week later i was branded a "racist" by a metro counciller through the same letters column in the same paper.

[Marthin]

Parasite here they have to hand it over to the closest official.  Far as i know that is the harbour master at Kalkbay.

If he doesnt rock up, you can't put it back coz here the trekkers have a bigger time keeping the public from trying to grab the undersize fish or fish that are tried to returned than they have stopping their own crew from stealing catches.

So let's say the designated chap didnt pitch up, and he cannot dump it on the beach.... then what.  Load it on your bakkie and it decided right there you've taken it to smuggle it to Gauteng.

Last time photos were taken of undersize fish being loaded into a bakkie on the beach it was actually the DAFF official's vehicle!!!!!!!

But i will be watching that court case for the outcome as well.

[RobinF]

Parasite, how silly does Ken think these guys are? Does he actually expect this netter to essentially record his own illegal activities? EKZNW are afraid of these guys. Only a few EKZNW members have the balls for this. You are 100% spot on. This guy is ALWAYS crossing the law, if everyone is committed to this, he will get caught very soon.

He will probably keep his nose clean in light of recent events, but it won't be long and he'll screw himself over. (Again)