Author Topic: Using a Braid leader for Casting (Read 259504 times)

REEFMAN · « **Reply #80 on:** June 02, 2016, 12:51:09 PM »

Not sure why this is happening to you Haze?

The Modified CatsPaw knot is as small as it gets, barely thicker than the doubled braid??

The guides on all my rods are the Fugi KR Concept guides, custom built. Has made a huge difference to the smoothness of the cast. And the guides after the stripper guide through to the tip are really small!

REEFMAN · « **Reply #81 on:** June 02, 2016, 12:53:53 PM »

So I'm thinking that even 30lb Sufix is too thick to use on a 9ft rod as mainline? You should be using 15-20lb max?

(If it's for spinning). What reel are you using on the 9ft?

Sufix 832 30lb breaks at 50lb and according to Paulus is 0.39mm thick, which is probably where your problem lies.

PatrickH · « **Reply #82 on:** June 02, 2016, 11:35:18 PM »

I am using a Gossa 6000sw.Will post pic on weekend of guide size vs knot size. Regards Paddy

PatrickH · « **Reply #83 on:** June 03, 2016, 09:59:36 AM »

It is interesting that in the Cape we tended to use heavier spinning tackle than the Natal guys yet slowly and surely I find I am moving towards the lighter gear. Will respool one of the Gossa 6000s with 40lb gaitor braid which is half the thickness of suffix and give it a go with the leader.

REEFMAN · « **Reply #84 on:** June 03, 2016, 11:17:47 AM »

Quote from: homehazell on June 03, 2016, 09:59:36 AM

It is interesting that in the Cape we tended to use heavier spinning tackle than the Natal guys yet slowly and surely I find I am moving towards the lighter gear. Will respool one of the Gossa 6000s with 40lb gaitor braid which is half the thickness of suffix and give it a go with the leader.

Will be an interesting exercise... keep us posted.

PatrickH · « **Reply #85 on:** June 07, 2016, 10:15:04 AM »

Well I decided to spoil myself with a Berkly 9 ft copperhead (Ps I am a founder member of Tackle Addiction Unanonymous)
My mate Mike has the same set up - 6 inches off the tip,with a 6000 Gossa spooled with 33ib Triple Fish 8 strain braid.(0.14mm)
AVERAGING 95.8m WITH A 60G FLATBACK SPINNER
On Sunday we use my Gossa 6000 with Suffix 832 40lb and the same 60g spinner
I averaged 80m and he averaged 76m. Almost a 20% difference in distance from last week
Its conclusive in our application, that line diameter plays a huge role whether it is due to weight, wind resistance or resistance pulling line off the spool.
I am going to respool both my Gossas with 40LB Gator 0.18mm in the next week or so and repeat.Will keep you posted.

Re the braid leader.I still hear the knot going though the guides on casting.Is that normal ?

Was wondering if anyone has come up with some sort of silicone spray to spray on line as I am sure that water or salt residue
even after rinsing will provide extra resistance coming off spool

Was thinking of trying 2 back to back fg knots on a piece of mono to see how that works

Regards

Patrick

Trevour · « **Reply #86 on:** June 07, 2016, 08:45:18 PM »

I seriously doubt the two fg's will improve anything. I would worry about one of the tag ends from the mono facing up the guides when casting, that alone will make its fair share of sound when casting. I would also worry about it constantly impacting against the guides, which may encourage the fg or at least the half hitches to slide off the mono. And you will probably need to use .50mm mono which will create a big step up from the braid, and that step will surely create noise, and speed reduction. Having said all that, I agree that we need to experiment more to find the best formula, so it would be interesting to hear your results. I would experiment with a light sinker before trying out something more expensive.

PatrickH · « **Reply #87 on:** June 07, 2016, 09:13:30 PM »

I have found that the bimini in the mainline braid attached to the braid stich loop joined with a three loop modified catspaw still clatters through the guides and seems to make a 10% difference less than without the stitched leader.
Was thinking about using the double fg and mono to join braid in the middle of the spool rather than 7 turn double uni as wont be casting it.
Then I suppose using a double bimini joined with modified catspaw probably will be stronger.
Will carry on experimenting.

REEFMAN · « **Reply #88 on:** June 08, 2016, 07:53:08 AM »

Patrick, how long is the Braid leader that you're using?

PatrickH · « **Reply #89 on:** June 08, 2016, 09:09:34 AM »

About 15 ft on a 9 ft rod. I have about 4 or 5 turns of the leader on the spool and the leader is about 1 ft past the end guide where it is attached to the flouro

Trevour · « **Reply #90 on:** June 08, 2016, 10:19:42 AM »

If you have a bobbin try this. double the mainline for about 500mm. Tie a 3turn uni with this double line around the braid leader, in such a way that you still have a tag end of close to 500mm running down the mainline, and a small loop running up the leader away from the mainline. From there proceed to do a pr knot using the 500mm tag to wrap around both mainline and leader heading down the mainline towards your reek. It is important to keep both leader and mainline tight in the procedure to prevent either from bunching. I do about 100 wraps and end with a rizutto finish, half hitches will do . The reason for the uni is simply to create the little loop, which gives you something to grip in order to keep the lines tight. The pressure from the main line will never reach this uni because all the pressure will by then have been passed onto the leader. The knot is super strong, Id venture to say stronger than a bimini in the mainline and has a very thin profile, hardly thicker than the leader as the leader is compressed under the wraps and not doubled either. For extra peace of mind, although I 'll pretty much guarantee the knot won't slip, I pass the line doing the wraps between the leader and mainline after about 50 wraps and then do the remaining wraps. If you don't have a bobbin like myself, you can attach the 500mm tag to a sinker (30lbs - 3oz, 40 lbs 4 oz, 50lbs - 5oz) From there you can spin the sinker around leader and mainline as a bobbin does. I can do the entire knot in well under three minutes, on the rocks and in the wind, and it casts great, for hours on end without issues. There is no need to do any turns of the mainline around the leader before doing the wraps, this happens automatically. I know this may sound complicated but it is really simple, and once you get used to it you will love it. I use similar methods to to create loops, it even works with mono to mono, except I do away with the uni. Its the stongest single line knot in mono that I have tried, and creates a smooth low profile knot especially when using thick leaders.

Trevour · « **Reply #91 on:** June 08, 2016, 12:00:37 PM »

Finished product.

REEFMAN · « **Reply #92 on:** June 08, 2016, 04:16:55 PM »

PR Knot is fantastic if you learn how and practice it. It's what I'm using now to tie Braid to Fluoro/mono.

PatrickH · « **Reply #93 on:** June 08, 2016, 06:53:31 PM »

Thanks Trevour,

Will give it a go over the weekend.

fishatic · « **Reply #94 on:** June 10, 2016, 06:42:30 AM »

Quote from: homehazell on June 07, 2016, 10:15:04 AM

On Sunday we use my Gossa 6000 with Suffix 832 40lb and the same 60g spinner
I averaged 80m and he averaged 76m. Almost a 20% difference in distance from last week
Its conclusive in our application, that line diameter plays a huge role whether it is due to weight, wind resistance or resistance pulling line off the spool.
I am going to respool both my Gossas with 40LB Gator 0.18mm in the next week or so and repeat.Will keep you posted.

Re the braid leader.I still hear the knot going though the guides on casting.Is that normal ?

Was wondering if anyone has come up with some sort of silicone spray to spray on line as I am sure that water or salt residue
even after rinsing will provide extra resistance coming off spool

40lb 832 has an actual BS that is a lot more than 40, closer to 60-65lb and attendant dia 0.45mm that goes with such strong line.
Your spool is emptying much faster with a thicker line and distance drops.

Also, have found that thicker 8 strand braids hold a lot more water and the additional weight also doesn't help

Your #40 832 would make great leader (say 5m) for a spinning set up like yours.

#10 832 would make a good main line, actual BS is around 30lb, dia 0.24mm.

Try to keep your main line to leader knot as short as possible; for a quick and easy knot you can tie on the beach, the Bob Sands with 7 wraps up and 7 wraps down the leader line is handy and strong and a useful alternative to the FG when you are in a rush...

PatrickH · « **Reply #95 on:** June 10, 2016, 09:01:59 AM »

Thanks Fishatic,

Another piece of the puzzle fits into place.

Trevour · « **Reply #96 on:** June 29, 2016, 08:27:21 AM »

Has anyone tried the bimini direct that Paulus refers to as being 99.5% knot. Biminis and PR knots are very similar in construction, a bimini just has a more equal ratio of turns up and down the knot. Personally I think a PR will be easier to do consistently, and that less twists is better than more, with the line that goes back up the knot basically crimping the two line together in a controlled and gradual way

REEFMAN · « **Reply #97 on:** June 29, 2016, 08:42:27 AM »

What's a "Bimini Direct"??

Debbie · « **Reply #98 on:** June 29, 2016, 08:43:44 AM »

great info

Trevour · « **Reply #99 on:** June 29, 2016, 08:54:16 AM »

bimini direct is the same a a bimini except the second leg is the leader itself, and the mainline is cut and tied doqwn above the knot. Paulus gives a good discription in his knots used section