Hypothetical Question

[LeerieLegend]

I have a question regarding legal issues with having fish in your possession.


I understand that you may only have fish in you possession (in total, including in your freezer) equal to the number fish you are allowed to keep according to specific species catch limits. Therefore you are allowed to have 2 galjoen, 2 belman, 4 elf etc etc, and the total number of fish may not exceed 10 (excluding species with no catch limit or limit above 10). Furthermore you are not allowed to sell or give away fish caught on a recreational licence.


1) If you are to make fishcakes/pie with the 10 fish in your possession, and freeze this, is the number of fish in your possession 0 or 10?


2) May you sell or give away the fishcakes/pie/ whatever you make with the fish?


Also, kob has different catch limits depending on where you catch them and how (East/West of Aghalus, on boat/ from shore/ estuary). If your freezer is somehow inspected and they find 5 Kob in your possession, how are they to determine where and how these kob were caught? Or are you always allowed 5 kob in your freezer?


Please don't misunderstand me, I do not fill my freezer with fish (even if I didn't catch and release I wouldn't be able to  ), I just ask these questions out of interest.


Happy fishing all!! 

[John F]

My view on your questions. I'm not a lawyer and not even remotely familiarised with the relevant SA legislation.  But here it goes...

1. Fish cakes/ pie are no longer fish. You can't ID (visually that is) which fish were used to make those pies/cakes. So I'd say you have 0 fish in your freezer.

2. You may give away your pies/cakes just like you are allowed to give away your fresh fish. I don't see a problem with selling your fishcakes/pies made out of your legal fish quota. It's not "fish anymore". But 8t might be ilegal as it has the potential to create demand, etc... But assuming legal limits are obeyed, not sure anyone will make a lot of money out of it... at least some work was put into it....

3. This is a tricky one. How about those species that you can buy at Pick n Pay? You can buy whatever amount you wish and keep it in your freezer. How're you going to prove that you didn't catch it yourself? Not sure what provisions are in the law with regards to this...

My 0.02 Mts

Would definitely like to see the inputs from other more knowledge members

[TankEvans]

John F, I believe technically speaking (which we are), you are not allowed to give away fresh fish.
On the fishing licence it states "Fish caught or collected in terms of this permit may not be sold, bartered, donated or traded."


Tight lines 

[John F]

Didn't know that. Thanks! That really sounds impractical... what's the definition of "donating". How far can it be considered donating. If my wife eats some fish that I caught did I "donated" that fish to her? What about my dad that lives across town? Interesting...

[Marthin]

Regarding bought fish, you MUST have a receipt.  For example i used crayfish tails that i bought at Spar for nationals at RASSPL one year.  I kept the receipt because we were travelling a bit.  It actually saved me big time at Masbaai in the WC a few weekends later when i took the last 2 tails with, and it happened that the crayfish were making us insane taking any bait.  DAFF rocked up and inspected everyone just as i landed a cray.  I through it back because it wasnt season, and upon inspection the found 2 frozen tails in my box, but the slip was in my tackle box from when i bought them... no problem.

So you can have 5000000000 white mussels as long as you have the slip to prove you bought them.

[REEFMAN]

John F, I believe technically speaking (which we are), you are not allowed to give away fresh fish.
On the fishing licence it states "Fish caught or collected in terms of this permit may not be sold, bartered, donated or traded."


Tight lines 

Where did you get that info from Tank?
My license states:
"Fish caught in terms of this permit may not be sold, bartered or traded." Doesn't say anything about donations.

Then in the Recreational fishing brochure dated 2017... Annexure 6... nothing about donating?? 

[Marthin]

http://www.daff.gov.za/daffweb3/Branches/Fisheries-Management/Marine-Resource-Management/Recreational-Fishing/Recreational

2. A recreational fishing permit entitles the holder to catch fish for own use only and not for the purpose of selling or trading fish.

[Bigben]

Hypothetically who is gonna police all this.


They cant even police this.


Bartered, sold right there on the beach...

[Marthin]

Ben why would you police something that is legal? Both species can be caught and kept on their license?

[SAfish]

Also, as far as I know the police are not allowed to search your house without a warrent. You will have to draw a lot of attention to yourself in order for then to obtain a warrent to search your house and I doubt it if they will go through all the trouble for a few extra fish in your freezer. The authorities just don't have enough resources to police this properly.

[Marthin]

Also, as far as I know the police are not allowed to search your house without a warrent. You will have to draw a lot of attention to yourself in order for then to obtain a warrent to search your house and I doubt it if they will go through all the trouble for a few extra fish in your freezer. The authorities just don't have enough resources to police this properly.

One of the ways you can get into trouble imo, and something that might need to be checked as i have no doubt it has had an impact in places like langebaan, is when people go out every day and catch their limit..... (sometimes more).

For instance if you have an eager beaver daff official, and they do exist, who checks your boat going out at knysna every day, they do their routine checks and you have your quota size grunter on monday, tuesday wednesday thursday... by friday they will ask questions... and remember daff isnt saps... they can confiscate ANYTHING they reasonably suspect was used to be in contravention of the MLRA.

When the tail is getting hit at Yzerfontein.... and a specific boat is going out every day, and comes home with quota yellowtail 5 days in a row, someone is going to ask on day 5 what you have done with the other 40.... coz you'd have to eat fish faster than a seal.... in fact if you had 10 on Monday, you'd have to have had a mini festival at home to have finished 10 tail by tuesday.....

[MichaelK]

There is a loop hole in the law that needs addressing.


As long as you have a receipt indicating you purchased the fish from a commercial, the law can not do anything to you.


So if you have a buddy who is commercial and offers you his receipt book, so that you can falsely fill out reciepts in order to not get prosecuted.


I reported a chap selling fish on the road side, unfortunately when the Parkies got to him he had already sold the garrick. However the other 50 - 60 odd bottoms where in styrofoam boxes with ice in the back of his bakkie.


The telephonic report back i got was that they couldnt do anything because he had a reciept and that i should phone the Health inspectors and report him for selling without a permit and in unhygienic conditions.  Seriously 

[Marthin]

yes that is a killer... we tried to nail guys catching and selling bronzies in the southern cape a while ago, but the one has a dad or uncle or friend with a commercial license, by the time parkies got around the paperwork was in order.

[SAfish]

Agreed Marthin and that is why I said you will have to draw attention to yourself. If I go fishing every weekend from the shore and at diffirent spots it is hard going to keep track of what I catch and keep. Not that I catch anything at the moment...

[TankEvans]

Hi REEFMAN,
Regarding the donating of fish, see point number 4 from this pic of my fishing licence.
I know its not practically enforceable, just an interesting technicality regarding the regulations.

[REEFMAN]

That's amazing... weird how different licenses say different things...

[LeerieLegend]

My view on your questions. I'm not a lawyer and not even remotely familiarised with the relevant SA legislation.  But here it goes...

1. Fish cakes/ pie are no longer fish. You can't ID (visually that is) which fish were used to make those pies/cakes. So I'd say you have 0 fish in your freezer.

2. You may give away your pies/cakes just like you are allowed to give away your fresh fish. I don't see a problem with selling your fishcakes/pies made out of your legal fish quota. It's not "fish anymore". But 8t might be ilegal as it has the potential to create demand, etc... But assuming legal limits are obeyed, not sure anyone will make a lot of money out of it... at least some work was put into it....

3. This is a tricky one. How about those species that you can buy at Pick n Pay? You can buy whatever amount you wish and keep it in your freezer. How're you going to prove that you didn't catch it yourself? Not sure what provisions are in the law with regards to this...

My 0.02 Mts

Would definitely like to see the inputs from other more knowledge members

This just means I can go out 7 days a week, take 10 fish out per day and make a fish product with them that very day, and I will never be over my legal fish quota, and then I'm allowed to sell these fishcakes as well?

[LeerieLegend]

And if you have one slip for say 100 mussels, you can just keep that slip and will always be able to have 100 mussels in your possession, and you could just use the slip over and over. Same applies for crayfish. 

[Marthin]

correct the majority of our post 94 acts and laws have more holes in them than ford kuga radiator....

[SAfish]

correct the majority of our post 94 acts and laws have more holes in them than ford kuga radiator....