All white lures... what do fish see?

[John F]

Building on these three threads

http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php/topic,1416.0.html

http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php/topic,1761.0.html

http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php/topic,1584.0.html

I would like to discuss the efficiency and experiences of pulling all white lures.

White is somehow an un-natural color for fish... it is often associated with weakness/disease/distress, which for a predator is a clear indicator of an easy meal...

In the tackle shops and sport fishing boats there is rarely an all-white lure (one may find the odd white bucktail jig, or plugs for GTs...)... ok, colorful lures will catch anglers before they catch fish, but the unpopularity of all white lures means they don't produce?

 I want to try and pull a daisy chain with colored squids and at the end, the sting lure will be all white and see if it makes a difference...

What's your experience?

 

[REEFMAN]

For Rock and Surf, white remains one of the best colours to use for spinning... GT Ice cream (needle nose, chisel nose) are deadly and are plain white. The Predator  plugs, Aubrey da Gama and Triton plugs all have a plain white lure in their arsenal... very popular... so it's strange that they are not favoured off shore?

[Homie]

For Rock and Surf, white remains one of the best colours to use for spinning... GT Ice cream (needle nose, chisel nose) are deadly and are plain white. The Predator  plugs, Aubrey da Gama and Triton plugs all have a plain white lure in their arsenal... very popular... so it's strange that they are not favoured off shore?

Tony, I thing the white on the RnS side really has nothing to do with the color, more the disturbance and white water that the plug creates.

Think about this, those plugs are viewed from underneath by the fish, so there is no contrasting color to the surface ( sky)
 
I think the manufactures make them white, as it's easier and cheaper than to paint them.

When we fish these lures, they are generally lost in the white water they create. The fish just attack the disturbance ???
 
Then again, I could be dead wrong ! Lol

[SAfish]

An extract from my book: The Fisherman's Ocean - David A. Ross, Ph.D.
"A fish's eye has two basic types of light-receptor cells: rod cells, which respond to black and white; and cone cells, which respond to color. .... The number of cone cells contained in the eyes of fish varies among species, which means that color vision varies among species. .... For example, deep-sea fish that live in relative darkness tend to see dim blue colors best. .... Species that depend on sight to find food and are more active during the day generally have the highest ratios of cone to rod cells. .... In low light, fish generally use only their rod cells and thus are mainly seeing objects in black and white. Although rod cells are very sensitive to light, they produce relatively poorly-defined images. As the level of light increases, fish start to use their cone cells, and their color-sensing ability increases."
This transition period between dark and light when fish start to see better defined images and color is also the best time to catch fish. I have had the best results with white plugs when fishing for Garrick and almost all my plugs have white as a basic color. Also read about "Snell's Window" it is very informative.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snell's_window

[Cam Mundy]

The main reason those lures are white is that they are a bugger to paint nothing wants to stick to them its also the reason they are effective as the fish can't grip them with their teeth so they slip through and ensure a hook up.

[REEFMAN]

An extract from my book: The Fisherman's Ocean - David A. Ross, Ph.D.
"A fish's eye has two basic types of light-receptor cells: rod cells, which respond to black and white; and cone cells, which respond to color. .... The number of cone cells contained in the eyes of fish varies among species, which means that color vision varies among species. .... For example, deep-sea fish that live in relative darkness tend to see dim blue colors best. .... Species that depend on sight to find food and are more active during the day generally have the highest ratios of cone to rod cells. .... In low light, fish generally use only their rod cells and thus are mainly seeing objects in black and white. Although rod cells are very sensitive to light, they produce relatively poorly-defined images. As the level of light increases, fish start to use their cone cells, and their color-sensing ability increases."
This transition period between dark and light when fish start to see better defined images and color is also the best time to catch fish. I have had the best results with white plugs when fishing for Garrick and almost all my plugs have white as a basic color. Also read about "Snell's Window" it is very informative.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snell's_window

Yoh... some fascinating info on that Snell's window SAFISH... Been a diver for many, many years, but never quite understood the window concept...
Thanks for this info... +cred

[REEFMAN]

I found this really excellent explanation on a flyfishing website....


    What  Do Fish See?

The eternal  question underlying fly fishing is, Why do fish eat the fly? There have been  friendly debates, outright arguments, and a few world wars over the last few  centuries about this question. Only the fish know the answer, which is the charm  of the sport.

Fish psychology  may be beyond our scope, but one thing we can analyze is a fish's vision. First  of all, fish do see in color. Both 'rods' and 'cones' are present in fish  eyeballs. The three chemicals that allow humans to see our seven-color spectrum  are also present, as well as a fourth common to most predators that permit them  to see into the ultraviolet range. It's very important to understand this. Two  flies that look identical to us can look very different to fish because they  see colors we don't.

Fish's eyes (at  least the fish we fly fish for) are set in the sides of their heads. That means  they do not have 'binocular vision' as people do; Their depth perception is  extremely poor and most of them have a semi-blind spot straight ahead. This is  alleviated by the shape of their retina (why do you think 'fish eye' lenses are  called that?), which allows for some overlap, but gives them poor distance  vision and excellent close vision (a trait they share with me). I believe this  is why fish don't stray far from their feeding lanes: They simply have trouble  seeing food at a distance.


We must also  consider the fish's environment. Some twenty-five years ago, Vince Marinaro  published "In The Ring of the Rise", the definitive work on the  subject to this day. We all know the speed of light is slower in water than in  air, but he used underwater photography to show how it would affect a trout's  vision, not ours. From my snorkeling experience, I was already aware of the  reflectivity of the surface of the water, which looks like a mirror from  underneath. Until his book, however, I'd not known about a fish's 'window',  just above its head, a cone-shaped area where it can see through the surface  film. The closer the fish is to the surface, the smaller the diameter of the  'window'. Everything beyond the window is hidden by the mirror effect. Fish can  only positively identify surface food inside the window, another good reason  for those narrow feeding lanes.

A final  observation to remember is how much light there is underwater. The mirror  effect is caused by sunlight. The bottom of the body of water will, depending  on its composition, reflect this sunlight to a greater or lesser extent. A  bottom of dark decaying vegetation would not reflect much, but one of sand  would reflect a lot. High reflective qualities will cause the bottom to be  reflected in that mirror, further diminishing the fish's ability to see through  it; And, in some cases, providing a visual chaos that is a poor background for  the fish to see underwater food against. However, this much light will also  show up the colors of objects both suspended and in the surface film, a fact we  should make special note of. It penetrates the water, lighting suspended  objects like sunbeams. This supports the ancient wet-fly fishing adage,  "Bright day, bright fly". Against the cluttered background of, say, a  bottom of light-colored stones reflected in the mirrored surface, natural  colors would be well camouflaged; But bright colors and flashy materials would  show up admirably.


In low-light  conditions, it's easy to see why the wet-fly adage continues: "Dark day,  dark fly". No appreciable light is reflected off the stream bottom, so a  drifting fly would be silhouetted against a more tranquil background. Also, in  lower light the 'rods' of the eye do most of the work, so, as in a  black-and-white photograph, contrast becomes the key factor. Black is the best  for contrast. White also works, but not as well. And in these modern times, we  have day-glow colors that gather and reflect even small amounts of light, so  those fluorescent colors are also good on dim days.

Fluorescent  colors have the added advantage of reflecting ultraviolet. Remember, most  predators can see into the ultraviolet range. We can't even imagine what the color  values are to them, but we can observe and deduce what attracts them. As an old  fly-tier, I have the disgusting habit of scrutinizing road kills. I've noticed,  at night, that on fresh ones the blood fluoresces. Experimentation has  convinced me that there is an ultraviolet marker in fresh blood. It makes sense  that predators would both be able to see this color and be attracted by it. I  believe that this phenomenon accounts for the fabulous attraction of the color  chartreuse. It may not look anything like blood to us, but to a creature that  can see into the ultraviolet range, it very well might. I sometimes consider  digging through my box of old hippie stuff and installing the black light over  my tying bench!

When it comes  to surface food, fish may spot the dimpling in the surface of the mirror where  the insect touches the surface film some distance away. This distance factor is  important, because it explains why several dozen hackle points can be mistaken  for six insect feet. I suspect they see this as 'something different', the way  I spot deer and birds in the woods. Their attention is caught, then when the  object comes closer they can determine what it is. Some insects are small and  light enough that not even their feet penetrate the surface when they drift  into the fish's window. On these flies, wing color and shape become very  important, and floatability. Other insects are plumper, and their bodies  penetrate the surface film. This includes terrestrials, spinners, and some  duns. Anything that penetrates the surface film will be clearly lighted by  reflection from the bottom, unless the bottom is quite dark. That means the  belly color of the fly becomes very important, most probably the trigger that  tells selective fish this object is food. This specifically includes  terrestrials, which are traditionally considered to be seen by the fish only as  silhouettes. This is true in dim light, but not in sunlight over light stream  bottoms. I've seen enough selectivity to color by trout eating ants to confirm  this idea. Many tiers tie beetles and 'hoppers to imitate carapace colors, but  the fish never see these. What do they look like from the bottom? I attempt to  match that color, with good success by the only judges that matter: The  fish.

Considering the  fish's point of view not only increases our chances of success in terms of  catching fish, but in terms of understanding them. It brings us that much  closer to the real, intangible goals of fly-fishing and tying.

--Rabbit  Jensen--

 

[WalkersKiller]

Very interesting info guys  :shre:

[John F]

Thanks for sharing Reefs!

Very interesting... +cred!

[benniejordaan]

We caught our first blue marlin this year on a white cona. So white is not just for spinning...

[Prego]

Might I add "white couta dusters"

[TUNAMAN]

REEFS your quote is quite interesting and could not help but notice that white reflects UV the best. Remember the old clubs? This could also form part of it and when GT's are concerned their feeding times coincides with the color choice.

We still have so much to figure out.

[John F]

So, fish anatomy and physiology favor the use of white, the optics (UV, etc) are also good for white lures.... good fish have been caught on white lures before - both R&S (plugs for GT, garrick, etc), dropshot (bucktails) and trolling (Bennie's marlin, tunas)...

So the question is... why don't the shops sell more white lures? Is it because people don't use white more often? (assuming it is the retail/manufacture industry that drives the fashion and use of certain products through sponsorship, marketing, etc)...

If white catches fish, white not sell more white? The more the angler goes fishing, the more he will buy? Or is my logic all twisted?

Anyway, I'll be using more white now (sort of a similar challenge jaen put himself into with the red/white and see what happens)... FIGHT THE POWER!!!!!

[REEFMAN]

The way I understand it, because of the mirror effect:

Bright sunlight

• Off a sandy bottom, the fish won't see a white lure, because of the high amount of reflection. It will be obscured in the reflection. Bright Coloured lures will be better.
• Off a Rocky bottom or dark weedy bottom, white will be perfect, because the contrast in the mirror will be high.
• Likewise if fishing in Deep water, where there is no bottom to reflect the mirror, white will be tops.

Low light conditions

• Little or no bottom reflection to create a mirror, so contrast is Paramount. Either Dark lures, or a white one.

Does that make sense...?

[John F]

It makes sense Reefz...

What doesn't make sense to me is why the relative scarceness of white lures in the market...

[REEFMAN]

It makes sense Reefz...

What doesn't make sense to me is why the relative scarceness of white lures in the market...

This is true. I think because it's filled with many complexities, (we have only discussed light conditions above, nothing about barometer readings, tidal, lunar, water temp, etc etc) it's incumbent on the angler to be able to read the conditions and have the right equipment for the conditions. Reckon tackle manufacturers will make what sells, regardless of whether it produces or not... how many anglers are well read and experienced enough to know what really works for which conditions? The Tackle industry catches the angler, not the fish! Same old, same old.

[super_daav]

I agree with Reefz's comment about the tackle industry. I have a room full of lures that look phenominal but in truth have little success to their name! Up at Linene a few years ago, we were using all white mega clousers with Earl Strydom and getting smashed every time! Didn't give it much thought until now though.

[Capt. Hook]

When spinning White is my go to colour and has caught me more fish than any other colour, even when trolling white is a top producer for me.
 
If I was forced to choose only 1 colour lure, then it would be white.

[Homie]

Tony, I thing the white on the RnS side really has nothing to do with the color, more the disturbance and white water that the plug creates.

Think about this, those plugs are viewed from underneath by the fish, so there is no contrasting color to the surface ( sky)
 
I think the manufactures make them white, as it's easier and cheaper than to paint them.

When we fish these lures, they are generally lost in the white water they create. The fish just attack the disturbance ???
 
Then again, I could be dead wrong ! Lol

Guess i was totally of the mark !

LOL

[Poenskop]

It makes sense Reefz...

What doesn't make sense to me is why the relative scarceness of white lures in the market...

I think white lure's don't catch as many fisherman as what the nice colored one's does. That is why the shops don't stock them as much.