Always a controversial topic

[Kwade]

Hi guys,
So me and a person I know always have a bit of a argument regarding catch and release... Because he's the kind of person who has no regard for animal life and refuses to release anything he catches, even if he usually forgets about the fish he's taken home and ends up throwing a rotting fish away... Thus I refuse to go fishing with him and refuse to allow him to come near my private spot (literally on private property so he can't go without me) to avoid my fishing trip being ruined by his tendencies ... I, on the other hand release everything I catch, much to his frustration because you see, he argues that fish, once caught and removed from the water will not survive once returned, especially bigger fish... Yet I've released fish (bass) that I struggled to remove the hook and by the time I got it in the water it popped up on its side, after moving the fish back and forth in the water by holding on its lower jaw for about a minute it threw itself to the side, free of my grip and swam off, clearly exhausted... I felt bad for awhile thinking the fish probably died as a result of the ordeal yet a week later I caught the same bass in the same spot (the bass had a unique scar on its side), again I struggled with the hook but got him back and about 2 weeks later I caught it again... So I believe fish are tougher than we think and I think fish survive just fine once released, as long as they aren't mistreated during the process... Even fish that break off or are cut off by the hook have still got good cha ces of survival because somehow they shake the hook (not always, sometimes they can't but more often than not they get free)... The exception being fish that swallow hooks or get hooked in the top part of their mouth just before the gills (actually I've only seen this with small barbell) and foul hooked fish... Any thoughts on the survival of fish once caught and released?

[John F]

Hi guys,
So me and a person I know always have a bit of a argument regarding catch and release... Because he's the kind of person who has no regard for animal life and refuses to release anything he catches, even if he usually forgets about the fish he's taken home and ends up throwing a rotting fish away... Thus I refuse to go fishing with him and refuse to allow him to come near my private spot (literally on private property so he can't go without me) to avoid my fishing trip being ruined by his tendencies ... I, on the other hand release everything I catch, much to his frustration because you see, he argues that fish, once caught and removed from the water will not survive once returned, especially bigger fish... Yet I've released fish (bass) that I struggled to remove the hook and by the time I got it in the water it popped up on its side, after moving the fish back and forth in the water by holding on its lower jaw for about a minute it threw itself to the side, free of my grip and swam off, clearly exhausted... I felt bad for awhile thinking the fish probably died as a result of the ordeal yet a week later I caught the same bass in the same spot (the bass had a unique scar on its side), again I struggled with the hook but got him back and about 2 weeks later I caught it again... So I believe fish are tougher than we think and I think fish survive just fine once released, as long as they aren't mistreated during the process... Even fish that break off or are cut off by the hook have still got good cha ces of survival because somehow they shake the hook (not always, sometimes they can't but more often than not they get free)... The exception being fish that swallow hooks or get hooked in the top part of their mouth just before the gills (actually I've only seen this with small barbell) and foul hooked fish... Any thoughts on the survival of fish once caught and released?

www.oritag.org.za  some reading to get him started....

Can't see the controversy... the science has been established decades ago!!! There's nothing to debate....
Seems like a flat-earth kind of discussion...

[Kwade]

Hi guys,
So me and a person I know always have a bit of a argument regarding catch and release... Because he's the kind of person who has no regard for animal life and refuses to release anything he catches, even if he usually forgets about the fish he's taken home and ends up throwing a rotting fish away... Thus I refuse to go fishing with him and refuse to allow him to come near my private spot (literally on private property so he can't go without me) to avoid my fishing trip being ruined by his tendencies ... I, on the other hand release everything I catch, much to his frustration because you see, he argues that fish, once caught and removed from the water will not survive once returned, especially bigger fish... Yet I've released fish (bass) that I struggled to remove the hook and by the time I got it in the water it popped up on its side, after moving the fish back and forth in the water by holding on its lower jaw for about a minute it threw itself to the side, free of my grip and swam off, clearly exhausted... I felt bad for awhile thinking the fish probably died as a result of the ordeal yet a week later I caught the same bass in the same spot (the bass had a unique scar on its side), again I struggled with the hook but got him back and about 2 weeks later I caught it again... So I believe fish are tougher than we think and I think fish survive just fine once released, as long as they aren't mistreated during the process... Even fish that break off or are cut off by the hook have still got good cha ces of survival because somehow they shake the hook (not always, sometimes they can't but more often than not they get free)... The exception being fish that swallow hooks or get hooked in the top part of their mouth just before the gills (actually I've only seen this with small barbell) and foul hooked fish... Any thoughts on the survival of fish once caught and released?

www.oritag.org.za  some reading to get him started....

Can't see the controversy... the science has been established decades ago!!! There's nothing to debate....
Seems like a flat-earth kind of discussion...

Ag I guess some people just have a caveman mentality (like him), showing him any proof is a waste because he's got a website he falls back on (I think it's PETA or something) and claims science proves his point... But the link about tagging and releasing is pretty much solid proof that there's no danger in releasing fish again

[Visenvryheid]

Even read a study recently looking at survival rates of gut hooked fish, with line being cut as close to the hook as possible while not harming the fish as much as possible, and the other the with attempt at hook removal from the gut. In most cases the fish released after having the line cut (they were released into a tank for observation) survived fine and most got rid of the hook by themselves within a few days, the ones where a removal of the hook from the gut was attempted most of the fish died thereafter.. I found that interesting.

[Visenvryheid]

I've hooked a fish and released it, could not get the hook out the jawbone and bit the line,  retied another hook and rebaited, cast it even further away, as far as I could..and hooked the exact same fish again still with my previous hook in his jaw..LOL so I released it again though he/she probably became fish and chips in australia taken by one of the shark longliners, I cant say its still swimming out there with any certainty!

[Visenvryheid]

I've caught numerous fish over the years with a hook still in its mouth or gut, many elf, quite a few sharks, a few cob and geelbek. I've landed fish with mates traces in their mouths and fish with my old traces in their mouths that had bust me off minutes before on bad trace knots or old line..A mate landed a 5kg cob last week with a trace in its mouth that fell out when he landed it..some k@k golden wire swivel had broken on someones blacktail trace and the hookline could not have been thicker than 0.4mm so great quality swivels there I'll be sure to look out for them!

Shame that was barry our pet bass..he got caught many times more than ten times at least I caught him three times..I am sure the first time I caught him was not the first time he was caught either..He was about 1.5 kg then. The last time I caught him he was 4.5kg-5kg at least. A huge thing..I caught him maybe four times and a mate many times, most times on a bait set for carp, he had a thing for white bread dough balls LOL, I first caught him and moved him here from a private dam to this private dam down the road, he died maybe 7 years later after eating a kurper that was about 1.5kg that got stuck..He'd eaten hundreds before, had cleaned the place out..but this kurper was his match my mate found him floating choked to death..But never did a hook harm him significantly, the last time I caught him he rolled over and waited for me to drag him up the grass and calmly waited for me to slide him back in..he knew the drill hahaha My biggest bass ever didnt even shake his head or pull a cm of drag..LOL catch and release and all..

[ianf]

There are 2 PETA websites: - 


People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals


People Eating Tasty Animals


Depends on your point of view which one you subscribe to.

[Visenvryheid]

There are 2 PETA websites: - 


People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals


People Eating Tasty Animals


Depends on your point of view which one you subscribe to.

What if you subscribe to both? I don't like to be cruel and only kill what I need to eat, understanding that whether I do it, a farmer or and abattoir does it, plant or animal, something must die for me to live. It is the eternal cycle of life. What I don't want is unnecessary death on my behalf and wasteful death and if I can have my cake and eat it, why do I want to eat it all for now, it is a stupid mentality. We can feast from the sea forever and get our sport and make money off tourism, if we are selective in what is kept for the table and release breeding stock and babies.

[ianf]

100% agree. I am an "edibles" fisherman, but try to do so responsibly. I probably get to the sea once or twice a year, and even then fish rather casually compared to some others I know. If I can have a bit of fish for breakfast I am satisfied, and as a rule of thumb, do not bring fish back home to JHB. But I also have no issues with people who want to return everything back into the water. No problem

[Half-Pint]

Hi guys,
So me and a person I know always have a bit of a argument regarding catch and release... Because he's the kind of person who has no regard for animal life and refuses to release anything he catches, even if he usually forgets about the fish he's taken home and ends up throwing a rotting fish away... Thus I refuse to go fishing with him and refuse to allow him to come near my private spot (literally on private property so he can't go without me) to avoid my fishing trip being ruined by his tendencies ... I, on the other hand release everything I catch, much to his frustration because you see, he argues that fish, once caught and removed from the water will not survive once returned, especially bigger fish... Yet I've released fish (bass) that I struggled to remove the hook and by the time I got it in the water it popped up on its side, after moving the fish back and forth in the water by holding on its lower jaw for about a minute it threw itself to the side, free of my grip and swam off, clearly exhausted... I felt bad for awhile thinking the fish probably died as a result of the ordeal yet a week later I caught the same bass in the same spot (the bass had a unique scar on its side), again I struggled with the hook but got him back and about 2 weeks later I caught it again... So I believe fish are tougher than we think and I think fish survive just fine once released, as long as they aren't mistreated during the process... Even fish that break off or are cut off by the hook have still got good cha ces of survival because somehow they shake the hook (not always, sometimes they can't but more often than not they get free)... The exception being fish that swallow hooks or get hooked in the top part of their mouth just before the gills (actually I've only seen this with small barbell) and foul hooked fish... Any thoughts on the survival of fish once caught and released?

www.oritag.org.za  some reading to get him started....

Can't see the controversy... the science has been established decades ago!!! There's nothing to debate....
Seems like a flat-earth kind of discussion...

Agree with John F. There ain't no controversy. If you put a fish in your cooler bag to take home it has a hundred percent chance of death. If you release it the possibility of it surviving is billions of times better

[Kwade]

There are 2 PETA websites: - 


People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals


People Eating Tasty Animals


Depends on your point of view which one you subscribe to.

What if you subscribe to both? I don't like to be cruel and only kill what I need to eat, understanding that whether I do it, a farmer or and abattoir does it, plant or animal, something must die for me to live. It is the eternal cycle of life. What I don't want is unnecessary death on my behalf and wasteful death and if I can have my cake and eat it, why do I want to eat it all for now, it is a stupid mentality. We can feast from the sea forever and get our sport and make money off tourism, if we are selective in what is kept for the table and release breeding stock and babies.

I can agree with that, look I have no problem with someone keeping his catch because he wants to eat it (and actually follows through with it) or has another valid reason for keeping his catch (maybe he has been promising someone a fish and specifically wants to catch one for said person or whatever the case may be)... But don't go catch 20 fish under 1 kg and take them home and from there you'll see what to do with them... Like you said it's wasteful and unnecessary death... Even ppl that go sell their fish for R10 each at the taxi rank (this excludes ppl who do this for a living or make a living off it), the ppl I know that do it aren't struggling financially and between the 3 of them usually catch 8-9 fish on a good outing... So they each get R30, so me personally, I don't think R30 is worth a fishes life let alone 9... But that's my opinion, understandably there will be a few different opinions on that but I end a living creatures life so I can benefit financially (unless we talking really good money - like life changing amounts of money but the likelihood of that is almost non existant )...

[Kwade]

Hi guys,
So me and a person I know always have a bit of a argument regarding catch and release... Because he's the kind of person who has no regard for animal life and refuses to release anything he catches, even if he usually forgets about the fish he's taken home and ends up throwing a rotting fish away... Thus I refuse to go fishing with him and refuse to allow him to come near my private spot (literally on private property so he can't go without me) to avoid my fishing trip being ruined by his tendencies ... I, on the other hand release everything I catch, much to his frustration because you see, he argues that fish, once caught and removed from the water will not survive once returned, especially bigger fish... Yet I've released fish (bass) that I struggled to remove the hook and by the time I got it in the water it popped up on its side, after moving the fish back and forth in the water by holding on its lower jaw for about a minute it threw itself to the side, free of my grip and swam off, clearly exhausted... I felt bad for awhile thinking the fish probably died as a result of the ordeal yet a week later I caught the same bass in the same spot (the bass had a unique scar on its side), again I struggled with the hook but got him back and about 2 weeks later I caught it again... So I believe fish are tougher than we think and I think fish survive just fine once released, as long as they aren't mistreated during the process... Even fish that break off or are cut off by the hook have still got good cha ces of survival because somehow they shake the hook (not always, sometimes they can't but more often than not they get free)... The exception being fish that swallow hooks or get hooked in the top part of their mouth just before the gills (actually I've only seen this with small barbell) and foul hooked fish... Any thoughts on the survival of fish once caught and released?

www.oritag.org.za  some reading to get him started....

Can't see the controversy... the science has been established decades ago!!! There's nothing to debate....
Seems like a flat-earth kind of discussion...

Agree with John F. There ain't no controversy. If you put a fish in your cooler bag to take home it has a hundred percent chance of death. If you release it the possibility of it surviving is billions of times better

That is also how I see it, even if the fish does not look like it's going to make it, I will still release it, because there is still that slight chance that it can survive opposed to the 0% chance of surviving a knock on the head or just being left out the water permanently

[PRENO]

This fish survived...unfortunately the person that caught it did not release it.

[Kosie]

Let me start off by saying that I am not A biologist and I don't have A degree in conservation ect. But I always find this topic very interesting and informing. Ok I usually only read about carp but surely there are some similarity's in principle between bass and carp when it comes to this. The question we need to start of with is is it A conversation about ethics or is it about conservation?. If it is about ethics I support the idea that we try and release the fish we are not going to eat. We not only need to release them in the safest way  possible but also catch them in the safest way possible. We pay for A fishing licence and that gives us the right according to our law to catch fish for the table, so one cant stop or force anyone to take the fish home that he catches. Even if it is A 7kg bass or 20kg carp. This is of course in public government owned venues. Catching to sell is something else and different permits are needed for this.


If it is About conservation it is A whole other can of worms of course, carp and bass being alien fish ect, no matter how long its been here. When it comes to protecting fish the local species will always have the legal/government support (well until thus far anyways). Then it actually starts making sense to try and limit alien species to specific venues that can not influence our main water systems/rivers and its fauna and flora. Carp is my favourite fish to catch but I also want to conserve our local fauna and flora. Carp and Bass are here to stay, now way the current government can do anything about it. But if they do decide to limit them to specific venues I wont mind either.


Then again, in some venues like the Vaal dam you might actually do the rest of the carp population A favor by taking out all the carp you catchs because of over population. I dont think is is as black and white as it might seem at first. I think every venue will have A different "best"approach. But like I say, I dont have any experience with this what so ever, so I might have it completely wrong.

[Kwade]

This fish survived...unfortunately the person that caught it did not release it.

Shame to think that fish fought to stay alive against the odds, only to be caught and kept by a angler... It's like the aquatic version of final destination

[Kwade]

Let me start off by saying that I am not A biologist and I don't have A degree in conservation ect. But I always find this topic very interesting and informing. Ok I usually only read about carp but surely there are some similarity's in principle between bass and carp when it comes to this. The question we need to start of with is is it A conversation about ethics or is it about conservation?. If it is about ethics I support the idea that we try and release the fish we are not going to eat. We not only need to release them in the safest way  possible but also catch them in the safest way possible. We pay for A fishing licence and that gives us the right according to our law to catch fish for the table, so one cant stop or force anyone to take the fish home that he catches. Even if it is A 7kg bass or 20kg carp. This is of course in public government owned venues. Catching to sell is something else and different permits are needed for this. If it is About conservation it is A whole other can of worms of course, carp and bass being alien fish ect, no matter how long its been here. When it comes to protecting fish the local species will always have the legal/government support (well until thus far anyways). Then it actually starts making sense to try and limit alien species to specific venues that can not influence our main water systems/rivers and its fauna and flora. Carp is my favourite fish to catch but I also want to conserve our local fauna and flora. Carp and Bass are here to stay, now way the current government can do anything about it. But if they do decide to limit them to specific venues I wont mind either. Then again, in some venues like the Vaal dam you might actually do the rest of the carp population A favor by taking out all the carp you catchs because of over population. I dont think is is as black and white as it might seem at first. I think every venue will have A different "best"approach. But like I say, I dont have any experience with this what so ever, so I might have it completely wrong.

If only the authorities were as strict with the guys leaving nets all over the place as they are with the guys fishing permits it would be a massive step in the right direction for conservation but we'll leave that topic for another day... You do bring up a interesting topic with regards to alien fish... I might sound iI know what is said about alien fish and their negative impacts but I struggle to understand how a fish that's been in a particular river system for over 100 years (carp were introduced in the 1700s of I'm not mistaken) can still be regarded as a threat, surely after so long everything has balanced out and these fish have become key members of the ecosystem, considering they have been in most rivers before any dams were built (which in its own is a alien ecosystem since we don't really have a lot of natural lakes in South Africa )... Strangely enough I read a article on feral birds, they aren't considered threatening to the indigenous fauna and flora, because of the effect urban areas have on bird populations (i.e the wildlife in Johannesburg today looks nothing like it looked 50 years)