Author Topic: Using a Braid leader for Casting (Read 254992 times)

PatrickH · « **Reply #120 on:** July 20, 2016, 05:43:21 PM »

Hi Steenie,

Which version of the FG do you use ?

Steenie · « **Reply #121 on:** July 20, 2016, 06:46:21 PM »

Quote from: PatrickH on July 20, 2016, 05:43:21 PM

Hi Steenie,

Which version of the FG do you use ?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pjzUb5QRKuk&itct=CB4QpDAYAiITCJq11qrs1ccCFUYOFgodi2QFETIHcmVsYXRlZEi__oCk5_n_juEB

REEFMAN · « **Reply #122 on:** July 21, 2016, 07:57:42 AM »

Quote from: Steenie on July 20, 2016, 02:25:06 PM

Just some of my experiences with braid leaders since the beginning of 2016:

I have mastered the FG knot for my braid mainline to braid leader connection and treat the knot with UV knot sense. It travels beautifully through the KR concept guides that Fishatic has put onto my Assassin Sierra rod. The knot strength is phenomenal.

A big learning curve was pairing my braid mainline with the correct thickness braid leader. I initially tried to pair my PE1.5 (25 lb) Gosen casting braid that does not absorb water (due to teflon coating) with a 5 meter section of PE4 braid leader (50 lb JDB 8-weave). This turned out to be way too big a stepup! The braid leader was too heavy, and got even heavier once it absorbed water, and this caused a traffic jam (with guide wrapping) in the guides during the cast. This happened infrequent, but enough times to place doubt in your mind with every cast. I had a couple of snapoffs losing lures in the process. Interestingly, the specific KR concept guides on my rod did not prevent this from happening. I ended up using shorter and shorter lengths of the PE4 braid leader (as short as 3. 5 meter) to try and combat the problem, but it did not work. The only solution was to lower the PE rating of the braid leader. Stepping down to a PE2.5 (35 lb) leader solved my problem completely! I still need to see if I can get away with a PE3 leader. Despite these intial problems I find the use of braid leaders extremely advantageous and will certainly not go back to using PE1.5 setups without them.

That's interesting that you had a problem with the JDB x8 as a casting leader. I'm not sure whether the problem was the size though? Even more interesting is that the KR guides still got tangles! When you used thinner Braid leader, was it still using JDB?
Wonder what Fishatic or Enigma's thoughts are on this?

PatrickH · « **Reply #123 on:** July 21, 2016, 08:04:46 AM »

Thanks Steenie.

Steenie · « **Reply #124 on:** July 21, 2016, 08:07:54 AM »

Quote from: REEFMAN on July 21, 2016, 07:57:42 AM

Quote from: Steenie on July 20, 2016, 02:25:06 PM
Just some of my experiences with braid leaders since the beginning of 2016:

I have mastered the FG knot for my braid mainline to braid leader connection and treat the knot with UV knot sense. It travels beautifully through the KR concept guides that Fishatic has put onto my Assassin Sierra rod. The knot strength is phenomenal.

A big learning curve was pairing my braid mainline with the correct thickness braid leader. I initially tried to pair my PE1.5 (25 lb) Gosen casting braid that does not absorb water (due to teflon coating) with a 5 meter section of PE4 braid leader (50 lb JDB 8-weave). This turned out to be way too big a stepup! The braid leader was too heavy, and got even heavier once it absorbed water, and this caused a traffic jam (with guide wrapping) in the guides during the cast. This happened infrequent, but enough times to place doubt in your mind with every cast. I had a couple of snapoffs losing lures in the process. Interestingly, the specific KR concept guides on my rod did not prevent this from happening. I ended up using shorter and shorter lengths of the PE4 braid leader (as short as 3. 5 meter) to try and combat the problem, but it did not work. The only solution was to lower the PE rating of the braid leader. Stepping down to a PE2.5 (35 lb) leader solved my problem completely! I still need to see if I can get away with a PE3 leader. Despite these intial problems I find the use of braid leaders extremely advantageous and will certainly not go back to using PE1.5 setups without them.

That's interesting that you had a problem with the JDB x8 as a casting leader. I'm not sure whether the problem was the size though? Even more interesting is that the KR guides still got tangles! When you used thinner Braid leader, was it still using JDB?
Wonder what Fishatic or Enigma's thoughts are on this?

I am confident that the problem is the PE rating rather than the brand. Glynnkent had exactly the same problem with a PE4 leader on his PE1.2 braid mainline. I suggested to him to go down to PE2.5 for his braid leader and he says it solved his problem completely. He is using the JDB 8x PE2.5 now. So I don't think there is anything wrong with JDB for the braid leader.

fishatic · « **Reply #125 on:** July 21, 2016, 08:17:27 AM »

Its a pity I am so far away as it would be nice to see it happening.
There can be issues when the dia difference is dramatic.
Personal set up uses PE4 leader to PE1.5 main line and have not experienced this yet - caveat YET....

What I have seen is where the mainline twists itself around the leader so you end up with the knot sticking out at 90 degrees to the line.
NO guide system will cope with this as the dropper-loop effect wraps itself around the guide ring (rather than the frame) Will post a photo of what I mean.

I wont use JDB line though..
Tried it for a bit as a main line and removed it from my reel.
Coating sloughs off in strips and clogs the line roller and guides. Icky sticky green gunk.

glynnkent · « **Reply #126 on:** July 21, 2016, 08:28:23 AM »

I agree with Steenie. I'm certain the ratio of PE rating from the mainline to leader caused my issues. A PE rating of 4 on the leader paired with 1.2 was just too big a step-up. On Steenie's advices, I downscaled the PE rating on my braided leader to reduce the step-up to from the mainline and this solved all my problems instantly.

Currently using the Gosen 21lb casting mainline (PE1,2) with JDB 8x 35lb (PE2,5) leader. Will experiment with PE 3 rated leader this weekend to see if anything changes.

Steenie · « **Reply #127 on:** July 21, 2016, 08:30:06 AM »

I guess another factor involved could be the Gosen casting braid itself, because it is teflon-coated and it absorbs little water if any. So it remains extremely light, whereas the JDB PE4 braid leader gets heavy because of water absorption. Maybe that makes the difference just to big. Perhaps other casting braid that absorbs water would be ok. I would not know. But Glynnkent, who had the same problem also uses Gosen casting braid.

fishatic · « **Reply #128 on:** July 21, 2016, 08:40:29 AM »

Dropper loop effect I mentioned....

Steenie · « **Reply #129 on:** July 21, 2016, 09:14:50 AM »

Quote from: fishatic on July 21, 2016, 08:40:29 AM

Dropper loop effect I mentioned....

Jip got them as well with the PE4 braid leader on. This all disappeared when I downscaled to PE2.5 braid leader.

Steenie · « **Reply #130 on:** July 21, 2016, 09:17:17 AM »

Exactly the problem I had! Nice photo of the devil Fishatic!

REEFMAN · « **Reply #131 on:** July 21, 2016, 10:11:37 AM »

This is fascinating!
I use Whiplash Pro 50lb leaders connected to Sufix 832 20 and 30lb setups.
Also 80lb Jigman x8 connected to 40 and 50lb Sufix mainline setups.
Never had a Knot or tangle. But then I don't get to fish as often as you guys...

Very interesting.

fishatic · « **Reply #132 on:** July 21, 2016, 11:22:18 AM »

I suspect its due to line twist:

No matter how good a reel you use, line twist (to some degree) is inevitable.
The continuous casting and retrieving when spinning tends to push the twists towards the end of the line, the much thinner main line cannot force the twists onto the leader and so you end up with all the twists bunched up at the leader knot enough twists and the main line wraps around the leader.

Better line rollers and maintenance of the roller's bearings help - experienced this recently with an old-school Penn Spinfisher SSM 6500 - within 20 casts I had created enough twist for this to happen, the design of the roller is just (k)not up to the task.

Lofty · « **Reply #133 on:** July 21, 2016, 07:54:19 PM »

How many "wraps" must i do when joining mainline braid with braid leader using FG knot,with Fluoro leader it's 20 wraps I see...

fishatic · « **Reply #134 on:** July 21, 2016, 08:03:00 PM »

I use 20.

Lofty · « **Reply #135 on:** July 21, 2016, 08:12:42 PM »

Quote from: Lofty on July 21, 2016, 07:54:19 PM

How many "wraps" must i do when joining mainline braid with braid leader using FG knot,with Fluoro leader it's 20 wraps I see...

Quote from: fishatic on July 21, 2016, 08:03:00 PM

I use 20.

Ok thanks,so it's the same amount of wraps as Fluoro...asked because some knots just about double in wraps if using braid as opposed to nylon...

Vandit · « **Reply #136 on:** July 21, 2016, 09:58:06 PM »

I use 5m PE5/6 JB hollow 60lb as casting leader on PE1.2, PE1.5 and PE2.5 mainlines, only seen this happen when splicing - FG and PR knots sorted it out. On the other hand, 50lb 4X Rovex Viros was a nightmare, which is quite a bit thinner but comparatively stiff due to the coating. I can confidently say that this problem is so complex that multiple and opposing solutions are possible. You could either argue that this knot forms due to accumulating line twist, or is created by dynamic unbalance do the comparatively discontinuous change in both mass and stiffness between mainline and leader. That would be a chicken or egg argument though because this problem requires both those things to occur. Not using a braid leader easily verifies that, as it eliminates dynamic unbalance off the bat. I'd guess the solution of reducing diameter is a two birds one stone situation if all braids were equal, as it tackles both those problems (and very aggressively fyi, both will reduce by at least a factor proportional to d^2). Going into a tackle shop and feeling a few different lines quickly illustrates that this should not be seen as rule. The limpest, thinnest leader braid you can get away with would be the ideal.

fishatic · « **Reply #137 on:** July 21, 2016, 10:20:39 PM »

Bloody engineer!
You are worse than me!
Rod working ok?

Vandit · « **Reply #138 on:** July 21, 2016, 10:52:49 PM »

Quote from: fishatic on July 21, 2016, 10:20:39 PM

Bloody engineer!
You are worse than me!
Rod working ok?

What you on about, its not just an occupation, it's a lifestyle... I'm 25, my rods still work as they should and I've never had to blame them for poor performance...

I make up for my bad casting technique with my relative youth, when thats gone Ill have to build some lure casting paintball gun. Still want that double foot KR stripper though, expect a call in the near future.

REEFMAN · « **Reply #139 on:** September 18, 2019, 07:58:49 AM »

Just bumping this post up a bit. Lots of guys asking about Braid....