Dropshot for Geelbek & Cob

[Capt. Hook]

It seems that we all agree that movement is an important factor

[benniejordaan]

It seems that we all agree that movement is an important factor

Again it depends! A popper for example works very well for surface feeding predators like GT's or YF IF they are on the surface! A popper had no action what so ever! A down rigged bullet also has no real action to speak of. Nothing compared to an ausi runner. Every situation is different! So I'm going to say yes, but no! It all depends.

[Andre Laas]

Mike, I love that lure you have created, and I can see no reason for it not to work.... lots of movement plus a nice profile! Don't worry, Bennie still looks at me like he is feeling sorry for me when I arrive at his place with my pea-shooters (Trevala ML and MH + Berkley air). Don't let him fool you though... he also owns some of those..."for the kids" he says...

Bennie, no problems with you sharing that. I have read more and can tell you even the scientists are confused about the subject of color vision in fish. In a world where contrast is rather important, it may be beneficial to see in "black and white" but, it still does not explain why there are "Color sensing pigments and cells" present in many fish's eyes, and also does not explain the color explosion during and importance of color in mating. Just look at reef fish! Obviously the deeper you go, the less important color will become. Who says fish can not switch from color to monochrome vision as they need to? Color vision in high light conditions and gray-scale vision in low-light conditions? I have seen far stranger things in nature. Would be interesting to test some of these ideas, and to study these aspects in our local fish species... just a pity that there is no money for this type of research....

As for colors, one more observation I have made from underwater footage. On a number of documentaries about various forms of ocean live, I have noticed that although all-other colors have faded to gray, pink and yellow seems to still stand out quite clearly. This would explain to me why those two colors work well on vertical jigs? Not sure if the colors was normal pigments of fluorescent pigments, but, in a world of gray, anything that stands out that much needs to  be investigated. Then again, that is if fish actually see in color?

[Andre Laas]

Again it depends! A popper for example works very well for surface feeding predators like GT's or YF IF they are on the surface! A popper had no action what so ever! A down rigged bullet also has no real action to speak of. Nothing compared to an ausi runner. Every situation is different! So I'm going to say yes, but no! It all depends.

I would still say that a popper has got movement, even if it is just the fact that it moves in a straight line. It also have "movement" in terms of the splashing of water and dangling of hooks? I agree, nothing like an ausy runner, but there is some movement and the generation of pressure waves (
I know... that is "sounds").

Same with a bullet.... althoug it has very little swimming action compared to a ausy runner, it is still moving from one point to another, which makes it more "detectable" than a 100% stationary object.

[eric cotton]

It seems that we all agree that movement is an important factor

Going to go off the subject of geelbek and  go to Natal snoek, couta and king fish and have to ask  why do people concentrate on using colours so much and has one ever thought of going natural, as I took it on this year not to use any snoek or couta duster and will say had some great result. It is harder to make out a nice fillet and not having it to spin, but believe me after some practice it will swim straight and gives a better movement... Been getting some fresh maasbanker and using the belly shine for catching snoek, it nice and firm and sooo fresh that the snoek cant seems to resist a nice fresh bait...... I went to Sodwana during June this year and we caught so many Yellow fin tuna and then we had a bright idea and used a belly fillet from a tuna and trawled slowly over a reef and ended up getting two nice king fish. 
( Hope I haven't jacked and body thread)

[Capt. Hook]

Nice Kingies Eric, I love using Bonnie fillets, especially Bonnie bellt shine

[TUNAMAN]

Going to go off the subject of geelbek and  go to Natal snoek, couta and king fish and have to ask  why do people concentrate on using colours so much and has one ever thought of going natural, as I took it on this year not to use any snoek or couta duster and will say had some great result. It is harder to make out a nice fillet and not having it to spin, but believe me after some practice it will swim straight and gives a better movement... Been getting some fresh maasbanker and using the belly shine for catching snoek, it nice and firm and sooo fresh that the snoek cant seems to resist a nice fresh bait...... I went to Sodwana during June this year and we caught so many Yellow fin tuna and then we had a bright idea and used a belly fillet from a tuna and trawled slowly over a reef and ended up getting two nice king fish. 
( Hope I haven't jacked and body thread)

ERIC you are 100% correct. Give a fish what they feed on and yes I was shown proper by a Rod and Reel Club legend how it is done and exactly as you said, there is very few situations that actually warrant flash or skirts. Use the right bait rigged properly and very importantly introduce it in the right part of water column. A 10 meters difference could make or break it at times.

[Marthin]

Dorado has caught quite a bit of bek and kob around the Melkbos area from a kayak if i'm not mistaken.  When he's online again i'll direct him to this post.

[Andre Laas]

ERIC you are 100% correct. Give a fish what they feed on and yes I was shown proper by a Rod and Reel Club legend how it is done and exactly as you said, there is very few situations that actually warrant flash or skirts. Use the right bait rigged properly and very importantly introduce it in the right part of water column. A 10 meters difference could make or break it at times.

In terms of the natural look, have you guys seen how Craig from ESA rigs his live baits? His rig is basically piano wire with a single glow bead to the first hook and swivel, then another length of piano wire from the swivel to the second hook. I believe that this probably looks more natural than many of the three hook traces with flashers etc that is on the market, and it works well for him. Similarly, Bennie likes to use a single circle hook with a heavy fluorocarbon snoot for his live baits, with no additional "attractants". These simple rigs are quite effective, probably because they look more natural.

This got me thinking a bit more. The flash and extra movement created by flashers, skirts, spinner blades etc. is probably effective in bringing in fish from further away, and works on the inquisitive nature of fish. Thus they may play an important role in attracting and exciting game-fish over a distance. However, when the fish comes closer and get a better view of this strange thing in the water, this same "attractant" may cause hesitation in a fish with keen eyesight that is not used to see this “thing” associated with its natural food source (it also makes the bait look bigger than normal….). Depending on how hungry the fish is, or on how much competition there is for that piece of food, the fish may still take its chances and strike it. However, a bigger, older, and cleverer lone fish that has got no competition for that piece of food may be put off it. This is where a more natural presentation is more likely to invoke a strike….. few fish will say no to a tasty morsel… unless it looks like trouble.

Will we then not be better off to employ a technique similar to that used by spear fisherman, where you have your attractors in the water to bring in the game fish, and then temp them with bait as naturally presented as possible on a separate line? (This is of course referring to drifting and slow trolling).

[TUNAMAN]

In terms of the natural look, have you guys seen how Craig from ESA rigs his live baits? His rig is basically piano wire with a single glow bead to the first hook and swivel, then another length of piano wire from the swivel to the second hook. I believe that this probably looks more natural than many of the three hook traces with flashers etc that is on the market, and it works well for him. Similarly, Bennie likes to use a single circle hook with a heavy fluorocarbon snoot for his live baits, with no additional "attractants". These simple rigs are quite effective, probably because they look more natural.

This got me thinking a bit more. The flash and extra movement created by flashers, skirts, spinner blades etc. is probably effective in bringing in fish from further away, and works on the inquisitive nature of fish. Thus they may play an important role in attracting and exciting game-fish over a distance. However, when the fish comes closer and get a better view of this strange thing in the water, this same "attractant" may cause hesitation in a fish with keen eyesight that is not used to see this “thing” associated with its natural food source (it also makes the bait look bigger than normal….). Depending on how hungry the fish is, or on how much competition there is for that piece of food, the fish may still take its chances and strike it. However, a bigger, older, and cleverer lone fish that has got no competition for that piece of food may be put off it. This is where a more natural presentation is more likely to invoke a strike….. few fish will say no to a tasty morsel… unless it looks like trouble.

Will we then not be better off to employ a technique similar to that used by spear fisherman, where you have your attractors in the water to bring in the game fish, and then temp them with bait as naturally presented as possible on a separate line? (This is of course referring to drifting and slow trolling).

Critter exactly as you said. This is why some boats are already layed out with attractants in their keels. Remember "The Elan Explorer" from ESA. the only time I use flash would be in very low visibility and only on Shad when rigged deep. Shad tend to hide and stay inactive when they are not in a shoal. Helps to point him out to the fishies. Maks I never put anything on as fish seem to identify them miles away. Reason for this is the tiger stripes/lines on its back. Another reasons might be their way of movement is short and strong shakes. This might cause more vibration which the predators detect easier. During the Gamefish Interprovincials earlier this year we experimented with this in Umdloti area and it proved to be as sound as it gets. Only diffrence is that my rigs do not use two wires from the swivel as this is just more wire to see. Two singles (4/0) hooks but very sharp and similar to how Eric would make his rigs. Your depth however is everything when you have all the rest correct. I'm referring to only live bait now.

[nico]

I am getting to this subject late (again!), but would like to make some comments:
 

as I took it on this year not to use any snoek or couta duster and will say had some great result.

UA is where all our secrets are given away    For the last year or two I have also stopped using dusters most of the time, only using a glow bead or nothing at all.
 

Sorry Mike but those pea shooters are not going to work on the GT's. You are going to be replacing a lot of braid!

This is my own jig head I've been working on and my own paddle tail.

As you know I've just returned from Santa Maria where I caught 7 new (for me) species on dropshot. All of this on Exceller rod + Exceller 4500j with 20lb braid and lighter outfits. Fish include a +-14kg couta and 8kg or so Kaakaap. Also a few tropical yellowtails which are strong! Yes it won't work for GT's, but it will work for most other things.
 
The paddletail won't work for anything more than 20 meters I reckon - it sinks too slowly.
 

Yes = "Ultra Light Tackle Bone Fish"
The Santa Maria & Ponta Tores Flats and Mashangulo MangrovesThis area is VERGIN and full of Bone Fish
}<(((*>

Oh yes! Loads of bonies in this area. We target them on 10lb braid and small chokka baits.
 

So red for example, will appear grey from a distance and you will see the red as you come closer. The water simply filters the colours and the lure will eventually take on it's surrounding colours.

Sorry Bennie, I disagree (or misread your statement). At the top of the water column yes, from further away the lure will have less colour and get back colour as you get closer. Deeper down though, there is no red in the light that gets filtered, so no matter how close you are to the lure, it will never be red.
 

As for colors, one more observation I have made from underwater footage. On a number of documentaries about various forms of ocean live, I have noticed that although all-other colors have faded to gray, pink and yellow seems to still stand out quite clearly. This would explain to me why those two colors work well on vertical jigs? Not sure if the colors was normal pigments of fluorescent pigments, but, in a world of gray, anything that stands out that much needs to  be investigated. Then again, that is if fish actually see in color?

I think what happens is that red is a common colour deeper down ESPECIALLY is it turns grey/non-descript. Remember that good underwater footage is taken with artificial light, which is not filtered and thus brings out the colours. That is why night diving (with a torch) is so much more brilliant than diving during the day (with filtered sunlight).
 
Regards,
./n