ULTIMATE ANGLING - the Ultimate SA Fishing website
General Angling Topics => Saltwater Lure Angling => Topic started by: lvtubbergh on March 15, 2014, 11:09:36 AM
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Hi Guys,
I received a few spoons and poppers as a gift last year and seeing that I am heading to the Transkei on Thursday I would like to use them. The challenge is that even though i enjoy rock and surf fishing I have never used lures before and i need to ask you guys for advice. I only have two questions, the rest of the information was easily found on UltimateAngling.co.za
1. I want to replace the treble hooks with normal single hooks. What size and type of hook should I use? I have added a photo so that you can see the size of these lures.
2. My second questions is the one that I really struggle with. How do I attach them to my line? Should I use a trace or do I connect them directly to the line? Should I use a leader of some sorts? There is so much info out there and my poor head got a little lost in all the different things mentioned...
While I am here I might as well go for a third question...will these things work?
Thanks!
(http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/MGalleryItem.php?id=2018)
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First of all :welc: ,I used Mustad hooks on mine,look for a hook with a short shank,the size on the middle 2 I'd say a 4/0,the blue popper on the left can take two 3/0 short shanks too,just make sure that the trailing hook sits upright(point pointing up)by adding one more split-ring if needed.Please make sure you use decent splitrings...see: http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php?topic=7491.msg109943#msg109943 (http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php?topic=7491.msg109943#msg109943)
Q 2:I attach mine to my lure with a good quality powerswivel to prevent line twist using splitring-pliers,you could also use quick change clips,but I find when I tried clips it took me longer to change spoons than just using my splitring-swivel method...I use a leader of about 1m of fluorocarbon which is then attached to my braid mainline using a 7 turn uni to fig. of 8...see: http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php?topic=73.msg136#msg136...the (http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php?topic=73.msg136#msg136...the) leader knot should be outside of your tip eye,because that should,if using braid mainline,reduce wind-knots considerably...I've actually had no wind-knots since doing this... :hnthnt:
Q 3:You can expect to catch anything from shad/elf,kob,Leeries to even :cout: :gt: :yft: if you're really lucky,if they're around,especially from rocky deepwater spots... :hnthnt:
I would try to add 1/2 1,5-2 ounce needlenose or chiselnose plugs and some bucktails and perhaps some paddletails with jigheads to that,but that's just a suggestion...the plugs are mainly for :grk: :hnthnt:
what setup are you using,rod,reel,braid or no braid... :dunno:
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:welc: whereabouts you heading to
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:welc: whereabouts you heading to
TK Kev
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:welc:
& Lofty is spot on, great info there!
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Thanks for the welcome messages everyone!
Hi Lofty,
Thanks for the valuable information you provided.
The list of species you have for question 3 have me drooling at my desk! There goes productivity for the last few days before heading for the coast!As for my setup... I have a very nice, light 10" rod that I think will do the job. I have another 10" but that thing is stiff and heavy and it just sounds tiring retrieving lures for an hour with that.I don't think my reels are appropriate for this function either. The one that I do have that might be worth trying seems to have died and not even my local fishing shop could revive it :cry: . The good thing about that is that I get to go reel shopping during this week.Any advice on that would also be appreciated. I have been checking older posts regarding reels but they all seem to be very expensive.
Kevf,I will be at the river mouth, just a bit north of Coffee Bay. We were there about a year ago as well but couldn't really fish due to really bad weather. Hoping for better results this year!
Now to convince the wife that everything on the new shopping list is a necessity...
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use Decoys on the popper:
(http://i57.tinypic.com/2cmxmye.jpg)
this halco is a bit bigger than the one you have, and I have 4-0 decoys on it.
you must also throw 7in paddletails for kob.
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Hi Ivtubbergh,no problem,we all learn something new every day w;k ...This obviously depends on your budget,but a reel that I also have,and that I'm really happy with is the Penn Fierce 4000,I notice that B.Manning don't have the 4K... :dunno: but the 5K will be fine too on your 10" rod...price:R 760,for spinning you need a reel with a retrieve rate of around 5,8-6,2/1,another nice reel is the Shimano Stradic 5000FJ...price R1800-R2k... :hnthnt: There are so many reels on the market to choose from,so shop around and read up on them on the net...it also depends how often anually you'll be using this reel...if not often then the Fierce is decent value for money...see here: http://www.basilmanning.co.za/reels/fixed-spool-reels-spinning/penn-fierce.html (http://www.basilmanning.co.za/reels/fixed-spool-reels-spinning/penn-fierce.html) whichever reel you decide on will need braid for the extra distance when casting due to thinner diameter,here again it depends on your budget,but braids that you should look at is the gosen,power pro super 8,sufix 832...this must be casting braid(8 weave/strand)...braid that I use is called Rovex Viros NXT,which is cheaper than those mentioned but definately not any worse and is good value for money,some of the other brands sell for around R450-R600/300 yard spool,I paid around R370 for the 20 lb Rovex braid,I've had no problems with it and I use it often...hope this helps... :clwn not much beats shopping for tackle... :hnthnt: :hehe: :rck"
p.s:what rating does the rod have,what weight can you cast with it...? :dunno:
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unless you will be spinning like this regularly, don't over-invest.
if you are going to do this regularly, I would suggest the shimano sustain.
if not, the symetre is good. the penn is also adequate.
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unless you will be spinning like this regularly, don't over-invest.
if you are going to do this regularly, I would suggest the shimano sustain.
if not, the symetre is good. the penn is also adequate.
only thing there is that the Symetre has a gear ratio of 4,7:1,where the Penn fierce has a 6,2:1 ratio,which is better for spinning...less hard work turning the handle to get the preferred speed into the lure/spoon...my Fierce 4000 has the same or even better line capacity than my Stradic 5000FJ... :hnthnt: and it's 2,5 times cheaper... w;k
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agree, but if spinning is not going to be done regularly, sacrifices can be made.
the Penn is probably one of the better value for money reels I have looked at, but I cannot comment further since I have never invested in one. I do have a symetre 4000 with which a lot of spinning has been done. cannot complain at all, and for plugs, poppers or paddletails, retrieve rate is perfect.
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Thanks guys.
I only get to the coast once or twice a year and the budget is a bit tight right now so I will aim for something cheaper.
How much line do I need?
I just went down to my favourite tackle store to look at what they have to offer. Didn't get a new reel but did get decoy hooks as Chris suggested as well as split rings and power swivels. I also picked up a plug and bucktail jigs. They didn't have a nice selection of paddle tails so i skipped those for now.
I did look at a Shimano Sedona SE4000FD which has a ration of 5.7:1 and from the reviews it sounds reliable. I will look into the Fierce and Symetre.
I will head off to a different shop later to look at more reels and maybe some paddle tails.
Thanks again for all the advice
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quote.."how much line do I need..?"I'd say get a 300 yard /270m spool,sorry if I'm wrong but the Sedonas' line capacity seems a bit low... :dunno: as said,the Fierce has good capacity..will go check for you...braid-(lb/yds) 15/335*20/275*30/205...so you can put more 20lb braid on it...as mentioned the Rovex braid will suit your pocket better and is good value for money... :hnthnt:
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... I do have a symetre 4000 with which a lot of spinning has been done. cannot complain at all, and for plugs, poppers or paddletails, retrieve rate is perfect.
I had the Symetre 2500 until a week ago when it went for a swim off the kayak and is yet to return... :-( Iv caught baby sharks on it, a rock cod and a whole lotta other species including bass, and was blown away at the performance. In terms of spinning, its super smooth if taken care off and not dropped in the surf etc, otherwise it will need to be stripped and cleaned and regreased, like with any other reel I suppose.
I have had it paired with a 7ft rod and loaded with 15lb spider wire braid and 15lb Flourocarbon leader, and could really cast a fair distance. if the 2500 was such a joy, the 4000 will be a delight too, though a 5000 may offer that extra line capacity.
I have'nt had a chance to use the Penn Battle or Fierce in the 4000 and above, but they do offer great value for the pricing. In terms of the Sustain 5000, an uber smooth reel and you cant go wrong. Its lightweight and will pair with a 10ft rod like a beauty, and will recommend it in a heartbeat if your budget allows.
But yeah, Sub 1k, its the Symetre 4000 vs the Penn Fierce 5000. The new Symetre is Saltwater approved as well and if rinsed with freshwater after all your saltwater excursions, you have a reel that will last you for a long long time.
http://fish.shimano.com/publish/content/global_fish/en/us/index/products/reels/spinning/Symetre_FL.html (http://fish.shimano.com/publish/content/global_fish/en/us/index/products/reels/spinning/Symetre_FL.html)
http://www.pennreels.com/products/reels/spinning-reels/fierce (http://www.pennreels.com/products/reels/spinning-reels/fierce)
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my symetre has been abused. almost always gets soaked. has been awesome. just look after it when NOT IN USE. clean and lube before you put it to sleep for a while. do this immediately....
how much line?? anything that takes you over 300m youre not likely to land anyway, so 200-250 braid is fine, with backing if and when needed. Braid, also you dont have to spend too much especially if you not fishing regularly. I would consider the daiwa tournament or the JDB.
15lb is enough.
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just look after it when NOT IN USE. clean and lube before you put it to sleep for a while. do this immediately....
:corrct: :corrct:
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, also you dont have to spend too much especially if you not fishing regularly. I would consider the daiwa tournament or the JDB.
15lb is enough.
:shk R660 for Daiwa tournament braid... :cnfzd sounds like a lot to me,and BM only has that in 30lb & 50lb..no 15 lb...JDB 8 strand 20lb R450...like I mentioned before,for a budget braid I don't think you can beat the Rovex Viros braid,which cost me +- R370... :dunno:
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WOW! this is getting really expensive.
So for reels it seems to be between the Penn Fierce and the Shimano Symetre. I will check both of these out.
Do anybody have any info on Spider Wire EZ braid? I see that goes for about R210 for 15lb from basil manning.
Yet again, thanks for all the information from everyone!
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i bought a spool of Daiwa tournament last week. Im sure it was under R400.
check out the JDB. also well priced and I have heard good comments about it.
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WOW! this is getting really expensive.
haha that's the truth
enjoy it down there, I haven't ventured that far south :tite
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WOW! this is getting really expensive.
So for reels it seems to be between the Penn Fierce and the Shimano Symetre. I will check both of these out.
Do anybody have any info on Spider Wire EZ braid? I see that goes for about R210 for 15lb from basil manning.
Yet again, thanks for all the information from everyone!
I needed to go to basils today, so thought ll check out both the above mentioned reels. Look, you can actually go up to a 6000 size on the Penn Fierce for under 1k if you like that reel. Perhaps have the guys fit it on a 10ft rod to see how balanced it is... :dunno: The Penn is bulkier compared to the Shimano but does have the extra line capacity.
The Symetre felt as I had expected but I must admit, but was a tad bit disappointed with the rubberised part of the handle compared to the older models.. But that's me just being overly critical.. :nuts: Its still a proper reel.
Look, I had 15lb Spider Wire EZ (Green) spooled on my Symetre 2500 with 15lb Maxima Flouro for almost 2 years. ... Iv never ever had a wind knot or snap off.. not once... I had it in the green and as mentioned, caught a fair number of fish on it. So, if this is what you can afford, I can vouch for it and will fish with it any day of the week especially in the 15lb outfit.
I have not used the JDB or Daiwa but....I just remembered something.. Have a look at the new Maxima 8 Strand in the YELLOW. I didnt get it because there was no stock in the Lbs I wanted in December and got another brand, but the pricing was not bad at all.. But it must be in the YELLOW and not the green, as some guys were having issues with the quality on the green for some rhyme or reason.
Maxima- Winner of the Best New Line at the Australian Fishing Trade Association Show
http://www.nafa.com.au/review/949.html (http://www.nafa.com.au/review/949.html)
Good luck with the decision and please do post some pics of your rig once you get it :-)
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For how to on braid have a look at this post. http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php?topic=3596.0 (http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php?topic=3596.0)
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Hi All,
Thanks so much for all the help and information. I decided to go for the Penn Fierce.
I will be loading it with Spider Wire braid tomorrow and then it's off to the beach with me and my new toys!
(http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/MGalleryItem.php?id=2019)
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Great Stuff Ivtubbergh (clap) Here's wishing you lotsa :sreel: on that rig. Look forward to reading the reports w;k
Tight Lines!
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Very happy that you chose the reel that I suggested... :hnthnt: :hehe: good value for money reel that,I think you'll agree after your first outing with it... :clwn .. :tite and don't forget the :fshn: pics... w;k
p.s:just remember to have your leader knot on the outside of the rod tip,it will help a lot when it comes to wind-knots...
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and keep it cleaned and lubricated in all the correct places after use.
pay special attention to the handle, bail arm and line roller....
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Very happy that you chose the reel that I suggested... :hnthnt: :hehe: good value for money reel that,I think you'll agree after your first outing with it...
Lofty I must admit, when i went to Basils and started playing with both the Fierce and Battle, my loyalty to the Symetre was stirred for a moment... just for a moment though w;k ... haha.
It really is great value for the cash and definitely something il consider for my next reel.
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Very happy that you chose the reel that I suggested... :hnthnt: :hehe: good value for money reel that,I think you'll agree after your first outing with it...
Lofty I must admit, when i went to Basils and started playing with both the Fierce and Battle, my loyalty to the Symetre was stirred for a moment... just for a moment though w;k ... haha.
It really is great value for the cash and definitely something il consider for my next reel.
:lolo: that's good to hear,I love my reel,I've had it for quite a while now and it's still going strong,it was my main spinning reel before I got the Stradic 5000FJ,now I use the Fierce for the lighter spoons and plugs,paddletails,bucktails,etc....I think I should get royalties for punting their reel like I have... :hnthnt: :hehe: w;k if one day you do choose to get one,I think you'll also agree that it's a good buy for the price...strongest I've landed with it was a 6/7 kg blue ray,off my boat in the Gouritz river and the drag was very smooth...mine is loaded with 20lb Tripple fish Gatorbraid... :clwn
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[/quote]I think I should get royalties for punting their reel like I have... :hnthnt: :hehe: w;k if one day you do choose to get one,I think you'll also agree that it's a good buy for the price...strongest I've landed with it was a 6/7 kg blue ray,off my boat in the Gouritz river and the drag was very smooth...mine is loaded with 20lb Tripple fish Gatorbraid... :clwn
Hahaha... And me from Shimano too :-) Im in the market for a reel for the kayak and have been wanting to try something different from the Shimano lineup. With 20lb drag, and a healthy enough spool for braid, it definitely ticks the boxes. According to Penn, it can take 370mtrs 20lb braid and that seems enough for a good session :sreel: .
The battle is also quite nice at a higher price though, but will let you know what I decide on...eventually :blush: After getting into a reading marathon on rod and reel reviews when purchasing gear, Im reminded of a saying..." After reading about the dangers of smoking, I stopped...reading " :crzy
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With 20lb drag, and a healthy enough spool for braid, it definitely ticks the boxes. According to Penn, it can take 370mtrs 20lb braid and that seems enough for a good session :sreel: .
yes,I was quite surprised when I noticed that the my "cheapy" Fierce 4000 had the same,if not better line cap.than my Stradic 5000FJ...love the Stradic too... :clwn
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tell us how it performs over time.
that is the true test.
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on the box it says...braid(lb/yds)...15/335...20/275...30/205...that's on the Penn Fierce FRC 4000...
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http://www.pennreels.com/products/reels/spinning-reels/fierce (http://www.pennreels.com/products/reels/spinning-reels/fierce)
also - generally good reviews on this reel. I think you will not be disappointed.
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on the box it says...braid(lb/yds)...15/335...20/275...30/205...that's on the Penn Fierce FRC 4000...
Apologies, I was referring to the 5000, though the gear ratio is higher on the 4000.
"tell us how it performs over time.
that is the true test. "
Agreed.
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sooo.... :hehe: how was the trip with the new reel..?Did you enjoy fishing with it,hope you got some fish... :clwn
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Any feedback from the reel and your trip..?I hope you caught something... :clwn
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Hi Guys,
I only got back home late last night from an awesome week away. Maybe not all that awesome fishing wise...
I think I can now consider myself the worlds dumbest fisherman. After all the brilliant advice I got from everyone I forgot to pack the braid and the leader line that I bought for this trip. At least I remembered my new reel!
I managed to get my hands on a roll 25lb of line. You don't really have much choice when you are out in middle of nowhere so this just had to do.
On my first day of fishing I decided to stick to what I know and test my new reel so I went to go fishing around the rocks with bait. First cast of the day I caught a small bronze bream. I politely asked him to go call his big brother before letting him go. About 20 minutes later I got a nice 28cm Blacktail.
Now that I know my new reel works very well and it being about an hour before high tide I decided to move the the river mouth and try out some of my new lures. I tried a variety of the spoons and the poppers without any luck and headed back to camp for break fast.
Next morning I started on the rocks again. It wasn't long before I hooked another fish. The Little bronze bream listened! I caught a very nice 37cm bronze bream.
And this is where my luck ended. After this I only caught two more small black tails.
The lures produced nothing. One fish did follow a spoon all the way to the little row boat me and the wife rented for the day to row up the river but that was it.
All and all it was a brilliant trip with lots of fun and new experiences even if I did not catch much.
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Here is my little bronze bream
(http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/MGalleryItem.php?id=2031)
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(http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/MGalleryItem.php?id=2032)
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And my best catch of the week(http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/MGalleryItem.php?id=2033)
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well done on the fish you did get.. (clap) It seems you're happy with your new reel... :clwn pity about the braid being left at home,but next time I'm sure it will already be on the reel... :hnthnt: that's a very nice pens en derms(bronze bream)...you should perhaps spool your reel with the braid and leader now,that way you could go have a cast with it at your local dam perhaps to get a feel for it... :dunno: check here for the how to's.. http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php?topic=3596.msg41149#msg41149 (http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php?topic=3596.msg41149#msg41149) when is your next trip?
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Loved the new reel. Just wish I could hook something that would give it a proper workout. I am definitely going to load the braid well in advance of my next trip. That will unfortunately only be in December and will most likely be Struisbaai.
I have seen some nice Garrick and kob being caught there. Hopefully I can get myself one of those!
Thanks for the link. I read that post before going. Just didn't have the time to do it.
Why do you call it pens en derms?
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Why do you call it pens en derms?
bronze bream-(pachymetopon grande)bruin-hottentot/pens-en-derms...here in the Southern Cape,fisherman know it as pens-en-derms(stomach & intestines)because of its' very big stomach and when gutted,has a lot of innerds for it's size...hope that makes sense... :-) anywhere in the Southern & Eastern Cape will be good to have the reel tested on a nice leerie or kob,even cracker... :hnthnt: But Struisbaai is an excellent choice too... :clwn
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Thanks for the feed back .
Atleast you got some fish to show , not bad at all . (clap)
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Hi Guys,
I received a few spoons and poppers as a gift last year and seeing that I am heading to the Transkei on Thursday I would like to use them. The challenge is that even though i enjoy rock and surf fishing I have never used lures before and i need to ask you guys for advice. I only have two questions, the rest of the information was easily found on UltimateAngling.co.za
1. I want to replace the treble hooks with normal single hooks. What size and type of hook should I use? I have added a photo so that you can see the size of these lures.
2. My second questions is the one that I really struggle with. How do I attach them to my line? Should I use a trace or do I connect them directly to the line? Should I use a leader of some sorts? There is so much info out there and my poor head got a little lost in all the different things mentioned...
While I am here I might as well go for a third question...will these things work?
Thanks!
(http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/MGalleryItem.php?id=2018)
:-) ...That slim spoon way over on the right hand side of the pic as you look at it is a DAMN FINE spoon...BUT...I would put a 6/0 short shank hook on it and as you have it ..no swivel...tie straight onto the split ring...The slim is good for kob , shad . leerie......
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w;k ..It also swims shallow and is great for hunting amongst the bricks , where you often find the kob looking for a spot to nest.....and boy...does a kobbie fight nicely when he is on the prowl to "mate".... :hehe:
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:-) ..Also , if you hevent already , get hold of these kwik release clips .....they great when you wanna change spoons/lures in a hurry and they strong.....I use the 1.4mm ones....
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What make are those strong kwik release clips - I can't find them here in Gauteng...?
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There are a few around.
I use the Boone ones.
they have different strengths available, so you can take your pick. I dont bother with anything over the 40lb rating. makes no sense, fishing a maximum of 30lb leader..
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What make are those strong kwik release clips - I can't find them here in Gauteng...?
w;k ...Contact Alcocks in Port Elizabeth....they are made by Dennis Swannel...
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Hey!
Excellent report. I'm pleased you had a good time. Sometimes in this competitive world, we tend to over-emphasize the "catching" part of fishing. I won't lie, I fish to catch, but we often forget that it's the experience of being out in the wild, and sharing a great time together with friends or loved ones.
Congrats on the nice catches, and thanks for the feedback.
Mike
P.S. Don't worry too much about leaving the line behind. I left my rod behind once... That's dumb!
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Hi Mike,
I also go fishing to catch something but I have to admit fishing for me is more about the trip, the experience, the time spent with friends/family than catching. All of this is made SO much better when you catch something and it adds to the story to tell later.
Must say I am looking forward to December when I will be in Struisbaai with my favorite fishing partner, my Dad.
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lets be honest.
it is all about catching, because if there were no fish in the sea to catch, you would not go down in winter, wade in the cold sea, throwing plugs just for the fun of it........
you keep on doing it because you know that the day will come when you get what you seek.
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Hi Chris,
Yes, we live in hope.....
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True but I also won't go out in the freezing cold on my own. IT is way more fun being miserably cold with someone than on your own. Hell even on a warm sunny day it just isn't the same without someone there to share the experience.
The trip, the people, the stories and the catching is what what makes fishing what is.
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Im never on my own.
I am always accompanied by my rod.