Too many runs and too little fish

[Kwade]

Ok so I've hit a bit of a wall these past few weeks, in 6 sessions I've had roughly between 35 to 40 runs (I only started counting my runs after the my 3rd session because I started noticing it's a problem then so my last 3 sessions have produced 22 runs) BUT I've only caught 7 fish... so I understand not every run is going to result in a fish landed but my stats seem to be telling me I'm doing something wrong... so let me explain a bit more - a majority of the runs result in no fish on the other end when I lift my rod almost like I got to the rod too late even if I'm right by the rod and lift it immediately AND the other thing that happens is I do hook the fish but it comes off (not via a break off or bad knot ) everything seems fine I'm in control then next thing there's nothing on anymore... another thing worrying me is the fish are there most of the time, I use a dobbertjie and its busy all night, sometimes it shows a definite bite but then its nothing,  also I fish with a hair rig so shouldn't the fish catch itself? I'm worried I'm using the rig wrong or not making them long enough or too long, I'm also concerned about the hook size being too small, my bait being too big... so any advice/input/diagnosis of problem will be much appreciated,  oh another thing there's a lot of aquatic vegetation submerged in the area I'm fishing and some are lost there but not all...and I tried bigger hooks last time, i hooked up but lost the fish again and had about 5 more runs resulting in nothing again haha it's like there's a ghost playing tricks on me there (figuratively speaking )

[Kwade]

One more thing - my fishing partner has caught 4 in maybe 7 runs

[Visenvryheid]

Try a good old van der merwe hook and see what happens?

[Kwade]

Will I be able to tie a hair rig with it? I suppose it doesn't matter I could just hook the mielie on the hook conventional style... I guess it's worth a go I've actually got 2 full packets of them a pack with a small size 6 or 8 and one with big ones a 1 or 2 maybe... although I would like to sort out my hair rig, somehow I feel the problem lies there and it's going to be stat a problem till I sort it out ... thanks for the advice I'll give it a shot and let you know how it goes

[BETTYS]

Kwade, it could be a couple of reasons, which you have mentioned.


With fishing the hair rig style , your bait must be not to far from your hook, if it is to far away from the hook the fish will pick up the bait but the hook will still be on the outside of its mouth.
Shorten your hair that the bait just sit on the hook bend.
If you fishing boilies or particles doesn't matter..


The other problem could be that your hook is not tide correct, remember you must use the snell knot. And if you place it in the palm of your hand and pull the hook snoot, the hook should turn and hook into your palm.


Give it a try and let us know

[Kosie]

I cant really comment on floater fishing as my experience with it is limited, but It seems you have to be on the rod much quicker then when bottom bait fishing, in fact the guys I have seen who are most successful with this type of fishing usually strikes and set the hook as soon as the fish swallows the bait, even before the alarm registers A bite (of course this is float fishing where the bait is also on the service of the water and can be seen) so dont stray far from your rods. If you do normal float fishing where your bait is below the float in the water maybe try A bigger float, this should in theory provide more resistance and A deeper initial hook set? What Bettys said also makes good sense.

[Kwade]

Kwade, it could be a couple of reasons, which you have mentioned.


With fishing the hair rig style , your bait must be not to far from your hook, if it is to far away from the hook the fish will pick up the bait but the hook will still be on the outside of its mouth.
Shorten your hair that the bait just sit on the hook bend.
If you fishing boilies or particles doesn't matter..


The other problem could be that your hook is not tide correct, remember you must use the snell knot. And if you place it in the palm of your hand and pull the hook snoot, the hook should turn and hook into your palm.


Give it a try and let us know

Thanks it's the first time I've heard about the pulling the rig in your palm so it hooks... But I'm glad you told me at least I can test if my hooks tied properly, because it was also a question I was asking myself, thanks for the advice... I'll try try it tomorrow and let you know

[Kwade]

I cant really comment on floater fishing as my experience with it is limited, but It seems you have to be on the rod much quicker then when bottom bait fishing, in fact the guys I have seen who are most successful with this type of fishing usually strikes and set the hook as soon as the fish swallows the bait, even before the alarm registers A bite (of course this is float fishing where the bait is also on the service of the water and can be seen) so dont stray far from your rods. If you do normal float fishing where your bait is below the float in the water maybe try A bigger float, this should in theory provide more resistance and A deeper initial hook set? What Bettys said also makes good sense.

No this isn't float fishing, I use the float rig on a lone rod on the side of my swim in a deep gully, it's actually caught me 3 of those fish in 4 runs so that even makes my success rate look worse on my 2 main rods... I use a hair rig connected to swivel which is tied to my main line, which has a free sliding mielie bomb on it... I also thought I was too late on the bite, until I had a run right in front of me and reacted immediately, to no avail... Maybe it's a combination of all the factors and I'm just that unlucky haha I don't know... What about my strike? I don't strike to hard as I have always believed that when a fish runs its already hooked so no need to strike, but carp (esp the bigger ones) have a hard bony piece in their mouth by their bottom lip if I remember correctly so maybe I should give the rod a good yank instead of the normal casual counter pull?

[Kosie]

Kwade the papsie rigs (mix between papgooi and spesie rig) can work great just make sure it is safe for the fish. Maybe try A heavier mushroom lead, and make it  A semi running rig so the lead cant slide all the way down the main line, this should drastically improve initial hook sets. Just please remember carp safety, I have seen some horrific papsie rigs that will kill A carp. In fact, the proper safety bolt rigs just works more effective in every way in any case, so the best will just be to just evolve to the proper big carp rigs as soon as possible.

[Visenvryheid]

It doesn't sound like you are hooking the fish to me? From my years of carp fishing i can't remember runs and not hooking up to ever have been a problem so I don't think it is a carp specific thing, but a rig specific thing? I agree with bettys that you must look at your hair rig.. Maybe try a van der merwe covered in mielies the way that was always successful for me, side by side with old/normal rig and then with a ultra short hairrig..Process of elimination, or you could still be sitting here a year later debated it with yourself? Haha that way you can tell us what and why and we learn!

In all facets of fishing I do fish must slurp your bait down and you must go vas..only exception is maybe leeries and plugs/spoons where they tend to grab the thing by the head or middle and you reel them vas and often hook outside the mouth..either way they are vas papa..Steenies which I fish more these days LOL are so similar to carp in their feeding and mouths, and I use a circle for them or a kendal but a light wire circle finds that corner and sticks there, like a van der merwe used to ;)---*&

I fished for the carp my whole childhood and teens and then later got shown how to really catch them..I was shown to forget the fancy stuff, can of mielies and you cant go wrong..Drag must be so light that the fish can pick up with no resistance and as its runs off you tighten up and he is on..there was never an issue of dropped baits with a thin wire circle-like hook aka VD merwe..works for grunters and steenies like a charm too?

[HennieB]

Is it possible to post a photo of your rig?


What hooks are you using?

[Kwade]

Kwade the papsie rigs (mix between papgooi and spesie rig) can work great just make sure it is safe for the fish. Maybe try A heavier mushroom lead, and make it  A semi running rig so the lead cant slide all the way down the main line, this should drastically improve initial hook sets. Just please remember carp safety, I have seen some horrific papsie rigs that will kill A carp. In fact, the proper safety bolt rigs just works more effective in every way in any case, so the best will just be to just evolve to the proper big carp rigs as soon as possible.

Don't worry my number 1 priority after catching a fish is to release it safely again, any fish not just carp... So I won't use a rig that will harm the fish... I like your idea of using the swivel to make it a semi sliding rig, I think I must try that, because currently I allow the the sinker freedom to slide on my main line. Thanks for the advice I appreciate it

[Kwade]

It doesn't sound like you are hooking the fish to me? From my years of carp fishing i can't remember runs and not hooking up to ever have been a problem so I don't think it is a carp specific thing, but a rig specific thing? I agree with bettys that you must look at your hair rig.. Maybe try a van der merwe covered in mielies the way that was always successful for me, side by side with old/normal rig and then with a ultra short hairrig..Process of elimination, or you could still be sitting here a year later debated it with yourself? Haha that way you can tell us what and why and we learn!

In all facets of fishing I do fish must slurp your bait down and you must go vas..only exception is maybe leeries and plugs/spoons where they tend to grab the thing by the head or middle and you reel them vas and often hook outside the mouth..either way they are vas papa..Steenies which I fish more these days LOL are so similar to carp in their feeding and mouths, and I use a circle for them or a kendal but a light wire circle finds that corner and sticks there, like a van der merwe used to ;)---*&

I fished for the carp my whole childhood and teens and then later got shown how to really catch them..I was shown to forget the fancy stuff, can of mielies and you cant go wrong..Drag must be so light that the fish can pick up with no resistance and as its runs off you tighten up and he is on..there was never an issue of dropped baits with a thin wire circle-like hook aka VD merwe..works for grunters and steenies like a charm too?

I remember only using vd merwe hooks when I was younger fishing with my dad, using a rig with a sinker at the bottom and 2 loops on the main line for the hooks, topped off with mielies on the hooks covered with a ball of pap (the sinker gets a ball of pap too) all drowned in vanilla essence and don't forget the piece of pap used as a police man on the line... Some good old memories

[Kwade]

Is it possible to post a photo of your rig?


What hooks are you using?

I will try post pics but it's usually a case of the file apparently being too big when I try upload to the forum... I don't know y... I've actually gone back to using docks ready built rigs in fear of mine being tied wrong, the ones I tied I used the hooks I got in that docks specimen starter set... But I'll try upload a pic for asap

[Kosie]

I remember only using vd merwe hooks when I was younger fishing with my dad, using a rig with a sinker at the bottom and 2 loops on the main line for the hooks, topped off with mielies on the hooks covered with a ball of pap (the sinker gets a ball of pap too) all drowned in vanilla essence and don't forget the piece of pap used as a police man on the line... Some good old memories



Aah pap as a policeman, forgot about that, wow,  took me back to another world now...

[Visenvryheid]

In my mates farm dam we had a pet bass..we'd use a deegie as policeman, get a bite, it'd fall off and Mr Barry Bass would be waiting under against the bank and smash! that deegie as it hit the water..LOL He loved deegies..RIP Barry..

Back to traces..specimen and fancy stuff aside..after carping for my childhood, in my twenties a mate showed me this, can of koo or other, find where the carp swim, look for structure along which they patrol for food, close in. Throw half the can of koo in an area and take your line tied directly to the vandermerwe, no swivel, no sinker nothing that is out of the ordinary.. pile on as many kermals of corn on the hook as you can fit, flick it into the middle of the feed and set your rod up and drag off completely so the fish feels no resistance what so ever..and wait..we'd catch ten 20lb carp a session between us or more..I was sold..simple easy and very effective. Though that was in cape waters teeming with big carp.

[BETTYS]

Kwade,one more thing I just remember reading thru the other post. Your sinker must be heavy on a hair rig, As the carp will suck the bait inits mouth it needs the wight of the sinker to set the hook.


Visenvryheid, I like the idea of the mielie pips, always work, when there is no pressure.
A our younger years.

[Kwade]

Kwade,one more thing I just remember reading thru the other post. Your sinker must be heavy on a hair rig, As the carp will suck the bait inits mouth it needs the wight of the sinker to set the hook.


Visenvryheid, I like the idea of the mielie pips, always work, when there is no pressure.
A our younger years.

This is interesting, I've considered everything else, but not the weight of the sinker, I might need to leave the mielie bomb and use a my rock sinker I got with my specimen box and just throw feed in with the sbomb or canoe... Bur what you're saying makes a lot of sense... I caught 1 the other night using a swivel between my main line and sliding bomb like kosie advised but I'll certainly look into the heavier sinker idea

[Kosie]

Instead of using A swivel rather use tubing/rubber beads, this will still stop the lead enough to get better hookups, but it is much safer for the fish cause the lead will still come of when the line breaks for some reason, with A swivel the fish will keep on dragging the lead with and get stuck somewhere and probably die. You dont have to stop using mieliebom, just put it around your lead, use A heavier mushroom lead it has enough wheight to set the hook just make sure your hook is sharp, normal hooks are usually not sharp enough out of the packet.

[Kwade]

Yea that's not a bad idea, and it's easier to tie, I did tie my rig using lighter line for my bomb to slide on though and even lighter hook link so if it's going to break hopefully it will be there and not my main line (using 50lb braid due to all the snags in the area I fish)