The monster at every venue

[Kwade]

Hi guys,
So I've been thinking dams like Donaldson and Wemmer pan are known for massive carp, and they not big dams but compared to some syndicate dams they are kinds big yet syndicate dams have massive carp too... so doesn't this translate into any dam over a certain size should have massive fish lurking in there somewhere? I'm referring to both carp and barbel (I just chose the carp forum because I used them as example with the syndicate dams) and bass, my pdoc bass is out of a small pond about 80x50m and my pb barbel comes out a river as wide as a double road and stricly no more than 1m deep... so why do some dams simply not produce? Is it because the dams are so big and we simply can't locate the bigger fish or they can't locate our fishing spots or is it that our spots aren't where the big fish roam... I understand only certain strains of carp grow over 50lbs so let's refer to 40lbs carp as massive (even though the 'bigger' strains do occur in most our waters anyway)... is there a surefire way to locate the big fish? Like how do big fish behave in dams (like equal to and larger than Donaldson type dams), I've always understood they hang around the wall and wait for food to come to them but I can almost vouch that that's not always the case, I've spent months of one night sessions from a dam wall and even though I've encountered big fish, never have I caught a behemoth, in fact smaller barbel crowd the area in summer, I've had luck in the shallows at night though... but I've never ever fished the middle of a dam at night or deeper water at night because I've always understood night is for fishing in the shallows but I'm keen on giving it a go to see how it works out... anybody with experience? Or any advice on where the big fish are in the dam?

[HennieB]

Hi Kwade, without being to blunt my feeling is that you're overthinking it a bit. You're probably referring to Donaldson Top Lake? I can tell you that most of the truly big fish in that venue was stolen and illegally transported there without any sort of permit. From what I've found at wild dams which aren't stocked or managed, big carp like to hang around in more or less the same area. This however is not a rule and they do move around. My pb of just under 40lb was caught in 30ft of water, in a dam with very little structure compared to a place like Tzaneen. This carp was again caught twice after that by a guy that I don't know but saw the photo and then again in 2018 when my friend and I visited the venue. All in the same area. There is no set rule where you will find big carp but structure and features on the bottom is always a good place and that is how I do my carp fishing. I don't pick a spot and then just pile in bait.

[Kosie]

Kwade we must understand that A venue like Top Lake is purely artificial and can not be compared to natural lakes of the same size. Please Dont think I am trying to take anything away from Top Lake but that reminds me too much of canned carp fishing. Plus I dont really have respect for people who preaches not to remove carp but they do it themselves. I havent fished it but I dont know how proud I will be of my PB there. What I do like about it, is the fact that you can book your own swim, you dont have to worry about guys poaching in your spot, its safe (apparently) and there are big fish and it has nice camping areas. In fact I wont mind to have/run my own syndicate venue but I will do it A little bit different. Now if you control fish population and there diet (to an extent at least) and the flaura you will get good fish in A small venue. Luckely more and more syndicates are introducing better/bigger carp strains (legally/morally) so  hopefully this will help to prevent guys from illegally stealing fish out of other venues for there own. Downside is it will take a couple of years before those fish reach maturity. I think there will be similarities in big carp behaviour bit I also thinks it is venue dependent and of course carp dependant. I really do think every carp has its own personality. Some guys believe they have figured it out in small artificial venues, maybe, maybe not, I am not that good. But in bigger natural venues I think it will remain A good challenge.

[Kwade]

Thanks for the reply guys... although I was referring to the bottom lake at Donaldson,  I've never been to the top lake since I'm not a syndicate member... I was just using Donaldson purely as a example of the size of the water, because I wanted to factor out the smaller dams and syndicate venues (like top lake)... so I was actually trying to get to what sizes do our wild carp etc grow to in our dams (excluding syndicate waters )... based on my experience of seeing large fish in small bodies of water, and the shortage of really big fish being caught in larger wild waters... whereas the opposite should be true if we believe the fish grow larger when they have more space to move... but if the fish have a certain size territory that they never leave then it makes sense that the fish get to the same size regardless of the water body size provided its larger than their maximum territory size? It even makes more sense after hearing about your carp that was caught in the same spot 3 times, I've also caught a particular distinguishable bass in the same spot of a big dam 3 times, opposed to the fish moving all over the dam as if they're nomadic... do you see what I'm getting at?  I apologize I think my initial question steered a bit away from what I was actually asking...

[Kosie]

I think to keep it short, if A small venue has enough food and not over populated the carp can get big. All depends on the strains I suppose. Then again there are those stories and black and white photos of 37kg+ carp from Bon Accord and Hendrik Verwoerd dam in the 1970's (If Im not mistaken). I like to think that we havent caught the biggest carp in SA. That leaves us with the possibility of at least 70lb carp in SA in my opinion. 100lb? I dont know, not our own strains we have here. But with the new strains being introduced and with proper venue management, it will not be too long before we see A new SA record, or unofficial record at least (probably from venues like Donaldson Top Lake) as most big carp anglers dont care to be part of an angling club or killing the fish to register it as an official record.

[Reebok02]

The quick answer is Food quality water quality population density and strain all play a big part in the max size for a venue.I have seen nice size fish come out of Very small ponds and some even open to the public for free.I have also seen someone catch a 40lb fish in the vaaldam a couple of years back it took him 3 years and he lives next to the dam and that will be last place in SA I will say there are 40lb fish swimming around and its not one of those urban legends. The pic is on another forum
Now in the Vaal a 6kg fish is considered BIG 7-10kg almost does not exists But the question is if there is a 40lb fish what is the biggest carp in the vaaldam? A dam that completely overpopulated with small fish and the strain must have been so mixed with everything else that cant play a role?

[Kosie]

Reebok that makes one think, maybe there are bigger carp in SA then what we think. Maybe the overpopulation is just preventing that record carp from getting to your hook bait first, its possible.

[Kwade]

Yes that's what I'm trying to figure out here - if we not getting to the big ones because the smaller ones get caught before them... Like do the big fish only move into a feeding ground (voer plek) after a certain period of time, do they ever visit the feeding spot? I definitely think there's fish larger than the our current records in our waters - in most species targeted like carp, bass, barbell, the various yellows (except the largemouth and clanwilliam) and probably in the labels and tilapia too... Food for thought though - we talk about the dams mustn't be overpopulated for fish to grow big, but my 1st and second spot PB bass (4.2kg and 4.05kg) come out a small dam heavily overpopulated with bass and tilapia, there were so many that I use to aim to get a quick 20min session in (about 20 casts) after work and was disappointed if I missed my target of 10 (I'd usually leave after my 10th and rarely stayed 20min, my record was 10 in 11 casts) but they were mostly sub 1kg except the 2 I mentioned over 4kg and there was a 3rd very close to that size but I never caught it, and we caught the odd 2kg but anyway there were still big bass in a over populated dam... Something interesting I've noticed with carp is when the population is high the bigger fish tend to go for meatier baits, like chicken hearts and livers and even platanas... I've caught a few 8-12 kg carp in densely populated dams with those particular baits in search of barbel...

[Kosie]

I wont say big carp wont visit your feeding spot in the Vaaldam, but I dont think they will swim 5 kilometers across the dam just in case someone is throwing A mieliebom or two in the water. I think the big carp will still stay in and patrol areas with higher volumes of natural food and areas where they feel safe, so watercraft will still be A deciding factor in my opinion when you target A dam like the Vaal for big carp, I dont think just chucking in 50kg of maize infront of you will be enough to get A 20KG+ carp into your swim, maybe if you do it every day for 3 years it will. There will be areas that 20kg+ carp prefer in the Vaaldam, find those areas and make A plan to get through the small fish.

[Kwade]

I wont say big carp wont visit your feeding spot in the Vaaldam, but I dont think they will swim 5 kilometers across the dam just in case someone is throwing A mieliebom or two in the water. I think the big carp will still stay in and patrol areas with higher volumes of natural food and areas where they feel safe, so watercraft will still be A deciding factor in my opinion when you target A dam like the Vaal for big carp, I dont think just chucking in 50kg of maize infront of you will be enough to get A 20KG+ carp into your swim, maybe if you do it every day for 3 years it will. There will be areas that 20kg+ carp prefer in the Vaaldam, find those areas and make A plan to get through the small fish.

Yes what you're saying makes perfect sense, what size do you think the carp grow to in the vaal dam?  I've heard van der kloof dam has confirmed reports of 70lb carp, I don't know if it's true, anyone have any thoughts on that?

[Kosie]

I think Vaaldam will also have 70lb+ carp, van der kloof also.

[HennieB]

I wont say big carp wont visit your feeding spot in the Vaaldam, but I dont think they will swim 5 kilometers across the dam just in case someone is throwing A mieliebom or two in the water. I think the big carp will still stay in and patrol areas with higher volumes of natural food and areas where they feel safe, so watercraft will still be A deciding factor in my opinion when you target A dam like the Vaal for big carp, I dont think just chucking in 50kg of maize infront of you will be enough to get A 20KG+ carp into your swim, maybe if you do it every day for 3 years it will. There will be areas that 20kg+ carp prefer in the Vaaldam, find those areas and make A plan to get through the small fish.

Yes what you're saying makes perfect sense, what size do you think the carp grow to in the vaal dam?  I've heard van der kloof dam has confirmed reports of 70lb carp, I don't know if it's true, anyone have any thoughts on that?

It is possible that there might be 70lb carp in the Vaal but with the amount of fish in the Vaal there might be very few. Vanderkloof definitely has big fish and it's not a pressured venue, but you'll have to locate the fish and there are very few areas where you can fish from the bank there. It's a very deep dam.

[Kwade]

Vanderkloof is on my bucket list of spots to fish in south Africa, although I had yellows in mind not carp haha, I think 70lb fish will be found in more local waters than we give credit to... I often wonder if dams where carp between 10 - 20lb are very common (like if you catch a carp you can bet its in that range) compared to one where the average catch is below 4lbs  isn't a result of different angling pressure... But I think dams like that you need to catch off a boat far from the shore to catch big ones??