FG knot issues

[Haroldg]

Since using this knot a few years ago it has become my go-to knot for a fluoro to braid connection. I have spent many hours testing braid to mono knots before settling on the FG "knot". I have been using Jigman 20-30lb to 38lb Siglon fluoro and after doing the wraps just one half hitch is required before I am able to pull the "knot" really hard. This setup has never failed.


However I came horribly unstuck this week when I decided to join the 38lb Siglon fluoro leader to a 50lb JDB 8x braid leader. The JDB braid seemed a lot like waxed dental floss and quite slippery. This combined with the hard fluoro proved to be a real challenge. I tried a few extra half hitches to no avail and eventually used my next best option - the Bob Sands knot. Granted I was using a set of dowels to pull the knot tight but I would have been happier had the join parted rather than slip as it did on several attempts - just didn't get any purchase on the fluoro.

[Haroldg]

Just one more thing...


I also tried scraping the fluoro a bit to get some grip but this made no difference....

[FishStyx]

I've used it successfully with nanofil which is also quite "waxy" but have only used it on soft flouro. I'll give it a bash on hard flouro.

[Trevour]

Try using a few extra turns in the knot. Say around 15 -20 in total each way, tightening regularly after about 3 each way. And then 2 half hitches. Have not tried exactly the tackle you describe, but more turns and tight as possible should give better grip.  Alternatively once you've tied the knot attach a 5 oz to the tag and do twenty turns around mainline and leader before the half hitch/s.

[Haroldg]

Try using a few extra turns in the knot. Say around 15 -20 in total each way, tightening regularly after about 3 each way. And then 2 half hitches. Have not tried exactly the tackle you describe, but more turns and tight as possible should give better grip.  Alternatively once you've tied the knot attach a 5 oz to the tag and do twenty turns around mainline and leader before the half hitch/s.

Thanks for the suggestions Trevour. Not exactly sure what you mean by 15 - 20 turns each way. Are we referring to the FG knot here? Some more details will be helpful.

[Poenie]

I suggest posting a photo of your FG Knot. Trevour is trying to say that you need to do 20-odd wraps of the braid onto the leader, before starting the half-hitching. Also, do plenty of half-hitches over the braid AND leader, then a few on the braid only. The criss-cross of braid onto leader should be around 2cm long.

[Cam Mundy]

The FG clasps the leader from the front of the knot so can be more prone to slipping on fluero when tension is alied to it

There's two main ways to tie the FG to solve the problem you are having I'd recommend this method of tying it as you gradually make the the entire weave tighten up on the leader.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2e9XgPsWZao

[Trevour]

Yes as said basically I'm saying make the knot longer. Also don't underestimate the value of having the first few turns under good tension.  If it doesn't clasp properly at the front of the knot those first turns can apply the little extra bit of grip needed to prevent slipping. Basically good tension and a long enough knot should prevent slipping.

[Haroldg]

Thanks a lot Guys - got it


Appreciate the feedback - it's just that I was so confident with this "knot" over a few years and got a rude awakening when things started to unravel after changing just one variable ie the 50LB waxy JDB.

[Cam Mundy]

Can I ask why you are joining 38lb leader to 50lb braid doesn't make much sense to me.

[Haroldg]

Ok here's the whole story Cam - hope to learn something from you on this one...


I bought the 10' Aerocast from Basil Manning paired with a 5000 Shimano Sustain a few years back. The guys there recommended one spool with 20LB and the other 30LB Jigman braid for the type of spinning the chaps were doing on the KZN coast. They also added a meter of 38LB Siglon Fluoro leader that lay just outside the top guide. Since getting this outfit I've only been using the 20LB braid with the same leader setup but started losing lures like crazy with break-offs. To overcome this problem many of the KZN chaps use a full length braid leader then the 1 meter fluoro leader as previously. I tried to buy 50m or so of 40LB braid for this purpose but could only lay my hands on 50m of 50LB JDB braid hence the current setup.

[FishStyx]

Sorry about going off topic here but can anyone tell me anything about JDB. I've scratched round on the interweb and very little has come up. One or two inconclusive mentions on Oz sites and then a few mentions on SA forums.


Where is it manufactured?


Is it marketed under a different name elsewhere?


Anyone here use it extensively?

[Haroldg]

No harm done at all Brandon. I'm also keen to find out but having used it purely as leader material I think it's a case of you get what you pay for.

[ebrahim]

there are a few waxed braids that slip on FG and even on a bimini...


after a slip on the braid topshot to mono i took it apart unwaxed say about 1m of braid dipping it in hot water and cleaning it, the bimini then does not slip.


try it with the FG, let us know

[Cam Mundy]

Ok here's the whole story Cam - hope to learn something from you on this one...


I bought the 10' Aerocast from Basil Manning paired with a 5000 Shimano Sustain a few years back. The guys there recommended one spool with 20LB and the other 30LB Jigman braid for the type of spinning the chaps were doing on the KZN coast. They also added a meter of 38LB Siglon Fluoro leader that lay just outside the top guide. Since getting this outfit I've only been using the 20LB braid with the same leader setup but started losing lures like crazy with break-offs. To overcome this problem many of the KZN chaps use a full length braid leader then the 1 meter fluoro leader as previously. I tried to buy 50m or so of 40LB braid for this purpose but could only lay my hands on 50m of 50LB JDB braid hence the current setup.

OK so theres a braided leader involved that makes a bit more sense now, personally I find 20lb braid to be a PITA to fish with I use it on one one of my ultralight dropshot/jigging outfits with a 2500 Sustain.
I'm no expert on the long distance shore based stuff happening in SA but i would say that 20lb braid is to light to use with a 10 foot aerocast the lure speed generated on the cast will pop it to easily. I understand that the braided leader is there to counter this but in my eyes it just makes for a weak link in the chain, braid to braid connections are very weak unless you are stitching hollow, so if you are losing say 20% of breaking strain on 20lb braid that leaves you with 7 kilo line.

Personally i would leave the 20lb for estuary and drop shot applications and stick with the 30lb for the long distance stuff.

[Trevour]

An fg will also be less likely to slip when the braid is attached to  a leader that is more unequal in diameter to the braid. The 50 lbs braid is thicker from what you were using.

As I understand it the knot is outside the guides, perhaps a gt knot would work. I've never used it but as I understand it is an fg except the fluoro gets a uni/fig8 to prevent slipping. The fg is a miracle knot for two reasons: size and strength. As it does not go through your guides the small size is of no benefit,  and the fact that your main braid line is much weaker than where you are doing the fg, means you are not going to benefit from it's strength either. If you specifically want to use a short fluoro leader without attaching a swivel, then you can also replace the braid leader with a mono leader, knotting it to your main braid with an fg, and to your short flouro leader with fg8's outside the guides. Provided it casts I think its probably a better combo.

[Haroldg]

Oops - sorry guys. don't know where the gremlins crept in... The MS Word document that I pasted from looks fine - lines between the paragraphs etc seem to have disappeared??

[Haroldg]

Ok - Let's try the RTF format - UA admin please delete previous post. Thanks


@Ebrahim – your suggestion makes sense – thank you
 
@Trevour – all the points you make are valid and completely  in line with my current thinking and experience to date. For purposes of this  discussion and to help anyone interested in this topic I just want to add a few  more pieces to this puzzle as it is quite a topical issue worth exploring  a bit further … After going through a lengthy  process of testing  various leader/braid  setups for long distance light tackle spinning over a few years now I’ve also previously  tested  a full length mono leader joined  to the braid mainline with the FG “knot” allowing for a few turns onto the  spool. This presented a whole new set of issues as the stiff mono leader  unraveled itself  from the spool at high  speed.
I then moved the mono about 10cm outside the spool hoping  that this would still take the punishment of the initial cast and protect the  first few meters of  braid which it did.  However the break-offs continued as I discovered you needed a few turns on the  spool to benefit from  such a setup.
Now I must say that if I behaved myself and stuck to a 40g  lure with a short mono leader outside the top guide which seems to be the norm  I wouldn’t have as many of these issues. I  find this very restrictive unless you’re targeting a specific species and I  don’t want to end up with an outfit for each. Had the guides on some of the  current  rods been bigger this would also  eliminate many of the difficulties being experienced.
 
@Cam – long range light tackle spinning is a different beast  altogether and there’s not a lot of information shared on this facet either. I  saw a clip by Brad Arthur recently testing out a few outfits in KZN and would  be willing to join him testing out various configurations  and post the results if he’s amenable to  this. I’ve seen the clip on the FG knot you recommend previously and this guy  is really meticulous. I must say that I do not intend ever burning the braid or  mono like he does. If you watch this clip very carefully you will see that the  “knot” slips as he tightens up and is almost protected from further slippage by  the burnt end. I’ve been using the version from the Salt Strong guys.
Regarding the use of the 30LB braid, you’ve got me thinking  and instead of it collecting dust I will give it a try with a short fluoro  leader outside the guides. My thinking has always been  that with the appropriate leader  setup with the 20LB braid I should have been able  to get that extra 10m – 15m ; often the difference between being in the strike  zone or not…. You never know… it may just turn out that without any fear while casting  the 30LB braid I may just be able to achieve the same result. I will definitely  try this out and will post the results if there’s anything worth reporting on.  You see many of us don’t have the luxury of chasing after  fish needing to merely lob a bait/lure  overboard… just kidding.
I also want to pass on my experience since using the full  length 50LB braid leader. Once again I tried various braid to braid joins and  after various tests and a recommendation from the Salt Strong guys I used  the  double uni knot – no fancy double  bimini, cat’s paw, donkey’s hind leg   etc. etc .joins….. This I believe gave me the smallest knot possible  unless I’m missing something. On a few occasions I could hear the knot pass  through the guides at high speed. This I believe allowed the lighter braid mainline  to get ahead of the leader and wrap itself around a guide perpetuating the  breakoff nightmare on two occasions during a spinning session one afternoon.  I’ve tied a smaller double uni knot (5 turns on the 50LB and 8 on the 20LB)  which seems a bit quieter so it’s back to the drawing board for now.
 
In the meantime I’m in the market for some scuba equipment  so that I can man my underwater tackle store which I seem to be stocking up  quite rapidly.