Author Topic: Spinning Rod: Assassin Amia Fuji's KR-Concept Conversion (Read 49916 times)

carll · « **on:** July 06, 2014, 09:26:27 PM »

Hi fellow Spinning Anglers.

After the post was made about the KR Concept, I did a lot of research on other forums about the KR Concept from Fuji and everything it entails. In other countries the KR Concept has long been used by Angler's that spin with surprisingly good results. Turning your Spinning rod into a Super Spinning rod.

I just want to make it clear that I am not a ROD BUILDER and I am not gaining any financial benefits by making this post, but I would like to share my experience with you. Spinning and Drop Shot fishing has become very popular over the last 4 years after anglers like Craig Thomassen, The Alcock Brothers and Barry Wareham made us very aware about Spinning and Drop Shot Angling.

In my opinion if you are a very passionate Spinning or Drop Shot Angler then the KR-Concept is a must as it will place you in a whole different dimension.

I just want to thank Brandon, aka Tackle-Holic for all his effort and designing that he put into my Assassin Amia and Assassin Spin E . He worked on the rods for 3 weeks and he tested every single guide setup until he was satisfied that both the rods perform to the max.

Fuji’s New GR-Concept.

Please do not confuse KR-Concept with Micro guide layouts, there are some similarities but the differences are big.

The concept calls for a stripping guide relatively close to the reel; from there it quickly gets reduced (or choked) down to the blank at a point MUCH closer to the blank than in more old fashioned Cone of Flight or even New Guide Concept builds. This means that we need to fit 2 or even 3 more guides…..

I truly believe that the true advantage is the result - MORE guides, not less. More guides closer together KEEP THE LINE AWAY FROM THE BLANK. More guides spread out over the blank extract more casting power, more power less friction. This is one of the BEST concepts for Inshore Spinning setups for braid application. The ant-tangling properties of K series guides (that KL-H guides share) become more when spinning with Braid.

Assassin Amia's ( 1oz-2oz) specs before and after. Just keep in mind that the Amia was NOT design to cast lure's under 1oz. For me the huge improvement in the lightest weight is significant. The Rod is now very more sensitive and has has lot of power in the butt section

Std Configuration (9 guides + tip) All distances were MEASURED

20g Spoon average cast 53m
55g lead average cast 115m

KR Concept Configuration (11 guides + tip)
20g Spoon average cast 82m
55g Spoon average cast 125m

Fuji’s KR-Concept Video

A revolution in rod component layout and design

mouse1 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 09, 2014, 10:42:08 AM »

I have also researched these guides and am impressed with all that they offer. As you say they not only improve casting but increase sensitivity and pulling power. Did you do the conversion yourself?

REEFMAN · « **Reply #2 on:** July 09, 2014, 01:35:28 PM »

Excellent post Carl!

Amazing video!
So what do a bunch of these KR guides cost, any idea?

PS: Please fill in your location in your profile.

fishatic · « **Reply #3 on:** July 09, 2014, 02:25:19 PM »

Cost will depend on # of guides needed, from memory Carl's rod had 3 reduction guides and 9 running guides + tip. Should be around $50 x current fx rate + customs VAT.
This is just for the guides, no labour costs to strip and rebuild.

REEFMAN · « **Reply #4 on:** July 09, 2014, 03:24:03 PM »

You do this as a hobby Fishatic? Are you a rodbuilder?
What would a ballpark figure be on an Amia? Total cost?

fishatic · « **Reply #5 on:** July 09, 2014, 03:40:06 PM »

It has been a long time hobby, but I am now really into it and am building as a second job! Will email you a all-in cost.

Lofty · « **Reply #6 on:** July 09, 2014, 03:53:08 PM »

Why not give a basic rundown of prices...?Then anyone interrested in doing a customisation/rebuild will know more or less what they'll be getting into and paying...??Otherwise you must e-mail everyone interrested with pricing...

fishatic · « **Reply #7 on:** July 09, 2014, 04:02:13 PM »

Fair enough, I am not in front if my PC so could have hazarded a guess and got it horribly wrong.
Either too much or to little... One way I shaft or scare off customers, the other I make a loss.

fishatic · « **Reply #8 on:** July 09, 2014, 04:03:35 PM »

Also not sure how moderator would react to me offering prices on the forum

carll · « **Reply #9 on:** July 09, 2014, 04:31:11 PM »

@ Reefs the cost for 11 Guides is +- R550 and that's for high quality Fuji guides. I chatted to Brandon aka "fishatic" yesterday about the Daiwa Exceler 1oz - 3oz because my friend has one and as you know the blank only starts to load with a 2oz lure/sinker. He wants to try and solve the problem with Fuji's KR Concept. Give Brandon a call he is a great guy and let him convert your Exceler into a monster Spinning Machine.
I chat to Brandon almost every day, he gives me constant feedback, sends computer format layout of both my rods and pics of progress just to tease me. Just the service levels, knowledge about the K- Series guides and professionalism shown by the man is fantastic. Brandon, you are an excellent example of how the business (of building a custom rod) and service should be and going the extra mile makes the difference

REEFMAN · « **Reply #10 on:** July 10, 2014, 08:02:40 AM »

Quote from: fishatic on July 09, 2014, 04:03:35 PM

Also not sure how moderator would react to me offering prices on the forum

Attached please find requested costing for KR Concept rebuilds of Assassin Amia and Daiwa Exceller.
Note: indicated costs exclude reel seat and grips - both rods are factory equipped with very good quality items and unless wear and tear dictate otherwise, I would suggest leaving them alone.

Costs include complete stripping of all guides and varnish/epoxy down to the bare blank as well as wet polishing.
All guides are genuine Fuji KL-H and KT, tip tops Fuji MN, all available in either chromed stainless steel or black coated stainless steel.
You will notice a slight difference in cost between the two sets of guides - based on experience with the Amia, it requires 12 guides + tip, the Exceller SHOULD require 1 less, but this will depend on static load testing of the blank.

Total Cost for 2 Rods quoted was approx R2300. Ie: 1150 per rod.

carll · « **Reply #11 on:** July 10, 2014, 02:10:01 PM »

The R/$ are our biggest enemy! The labour for the rods are cheap or the going rate but the time and effort he put into redesigning the rod to perform to it's max.....testing...testing.....changing the guide positions and testing again. That takes some time and he definitely knows what he is doing. I would like to see a Exceler rod perform with the KR Concept because that's a monster blank and what I experienced was a huge improvement in the lightest weight lures is very significant.

Lofty · « **Reply #12 on:** July 10, 2014, 02:22:08 PM »

The fact that by putting more guides you make casting lighter lures easier is very interresting,I would've thought that more guides will make the rod even stiffer and heavier as the guides are closer together,meaning more binding,epoxy etc.,making it harder to cast lighter lures.As some may know,the Poseidon ultra-light 10'6" 1-3 ounce,is almost impossible to load with anything lighter than 2 ounce,so I would love to know how big a difference these guides will make to this rods' casting ability...

carll · « **Reply #13 on:** July 10, 2014, 02:45:26 PM »

Hi Lofty.

A friend of mine have a Exceler and have the same problem than you. He is unable to cast a 1oz lure

I have the Amia Cob

thats stiffer than the new one and only start to load with 1.2oz lure/weight but after the KR Concept conversion I can cast 20g

spoon !

But call Brandom and chat to him.

carll · « **Reply #14 on:** July 10, 2014, 02:50:21 PM »

Hi Lofty I send you a PM

REEFMAN · « **Reply #15 on:** July 10, 2014, 03:34:07 PM »

I'm going to get my Exceler done by Brandon... watch this space. He just needs to pick it up from me at the GP Social...

fishatic · « **Reply #16 on:** July 10, 2014, 04:03:44 PM »

Lofty,

Rods are not ordinary levers i.e. they are not rigid, so when placed under load they flex and store energy, flex it more - store more energy.
I am of the belief that putting the stripping guide closer to the reel and fitting the rod with more guides allows the blank to start bending earlier and so the rod develops more flex under load; this flex translates into more stored energy that, when we release ( at the right moment in the cast) is transferred to the weight/lure - it flies further.

I did some static load tests of a rod by:
1. Hanging a fixed weight directly off the tip
2. Hanging it on the end of line threaded the line through the guides (conventional and KR)

The blank loaded via guides/line flexes deeper; of the two guide tests the KR layout stored more energy

More guides spreads the load over the length of the rod and also better controls line
Line under control is prevented from slapping against the blank - the major source of energy robbing friction
This reduction in friction pays dividends with lighter weights that have less momentum (momentum being the product of mass and velocity)

There is a balance between # of (small) guides increasing performance and too many guides hindering the recovery ability of a blank...

When Interline surf rods were introduced years ago they outcast conventional guide equipped rods because the blanks were loading deeper/better and the line was under "strict" control.

Friction would have seemed to be a limiting factor but the better loading and control offered outweighed the losses.

Using more small guides we mimic this characteristic; BUT we have less friction than when funnelling the line through the blank.

Out of interest, Interline surf rods are pretty much unknown in SA but if they were available would be very, very expensive. A top of the line Daiwa interline rod (not the ones available in the US) go for between $1800 and $2200.....

Rory mundy · « **Reply #17 on:** July 10, 2014, 04:09:47 PM »

can one buy a amnia blank to start off with to be custom built?

carll · « **Reply #18 on:** July 10, 2014, 04:27:59 PM »

Quote from: REEFMAN on July 10, 2014, 03:34:07 PM

I'm going to get my Exceler done by Brandon... watch this space. He just needs to pick it up from me at the GP Social...

Reef that Exceler have a fantastic blank ! You going to turn your Exceler in a monster Spinning Machine !!! Would like to cast a Exceler after a KR Concept Conversion

carll · « **Reply #19 on:** July 10, 2014, 04:50:29 PM »

Quote from: Rory mundy on July 10, 2014, 04:09:47 PM

can one buy a amnia blank to start off with to be custom built?

Think you must talk to CKLS. With a small reel like the Sustain 5000 I experienced a lot of braid slap against the blank. I think its

because the reel sits so close to the blank but it happens with every Spinning reel. But yes Fuji proved it to us in their video.