ULTIMATE ANGLING - the Ultimate SA Fishing website
General Angling Topics => Rock and Surf Traces and Rigs => Topic started by: REEFMAN on June 26, 2010, 03:59:34 PM
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How to make your own:
DOUBLE SPLICE WIND-ON LEADER
MAKE YOUR OWN WIND-ON LEADERS
Wind-on leaders have been in use in Big Game/Billfishing/Deep sea fishing for many years, but it is only recently that Shark anglers have been using them for Rock and Surf angling. Leaders larger than 1mm produce very large knots, which are near impossible to cast through the guides of a rod. Enter the wind-on, which produces a very strong, smooth join to the mainline via a Bimini Twist - Modified Cats Paw loop knot (described at the end of this tutorial).
Wind-on leaders incorporate the use of DACRON... A trade name for Polyethylene terephthalate, a thermoplastic resin of the POLYESTER family.
DACRON is a continuous woven braid with a hollow core. This braided line grips mono as it stretches - Leader material slides into the hollow core of the Dacron or Spectra and cannot be pulled out. A loop at the end of the braided line provides a means of connecting leader to main line.
Here follows a tutorial on how to make your own Wind-on leaders... this method uses the DOUBLE SPLICE method, which to my knowledge is the strongest version. Ready-made Wind-on leaders are ridiculously expensive (R65-200), so if you make them yourselves, you can do it for R10-12 and save yourself a fortune.
Hopefully this will help someone out there!
For this tutorial, we will be making a Wind-on leader for Rock and Surf/Shore angling/Boat Spinning/Jigging, using 1mm (120lb) Fluorocarbon leader and 80lb DACRON. Normally, straightforward leader material would be used. (It is usually unnecessary to use Fluorocarbon for the leader).
IMPORTANT: The tighter the fit of the leader into the DACRON, the stronger the grip of the DACRON will be.
So make sure you match up your DACRON and LEADER correctly.
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/SIZE%20OF%20DACRON.jpg)
Courtesy of Tournamentcable.com
Dacron 80lb
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/WIND-ON1.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/WIND-ON2.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/WIND-ON3.jpg)
What you will need.... American Piano wire size 5, 6 or 7
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/WIND-ON4.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/WIND-ON5.jpg)
So let's start...
Cut a 1 to 1,2m length of DACRON.
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/ADD1.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/ADD2.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/ADD3.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/ADD4.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/ADD4A.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/ADD5.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/ADD7.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/ADD8.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/ADD10.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/ADD11.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/WIND-ON%206.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/WIND-ON%207.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/WIND-ON%208.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/WIND-ON%209.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/WIND-ON%2011.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/ADD13.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/ADD14.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/ADD15.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/ADD16.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/ADD17.jpg)
Now we want to thread the Leader into the Inner Splice of DACRON...
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/WIND-ON%2021.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/WIND-ON%2022.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/WIND-ON%2024.jpg)
Thread the leader in as far as you can until it touches the loop knots...
Once the leader is in and the Outer Splice has been smoothed back,
place a small drop of superglue on the join of the Dacron to the nylon.
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/WIND-ON%2029.jpg)
At this point, we now have to wrap the Dacron, binding it to the Leader so that the Dacron doesn't move back up the leader, which will cause it to come loose.
Below it's described using braid, but DENTAL FLOSS works much better, is neater and more flexible.
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/WIND-ON%2030.jpg)
In the diagram above, the braid should start the other way around. Start the initial wraps from the leader side.
In the image below, the loose wraps of braid have started on the leader side...
Then the bobbin spinning tight wraps from the Dacron, back over the loose wraps of braid,
toward the leader.
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/WIND-ON%2031.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/WIND-ON%2032.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/WIND-ON%2033.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/WIND-ON%2034.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/WIND-ON%2035.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/WIND-ON%2036.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/WIND-ON%2037.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/WIND-ON%2038.jpg)
Instead of pliobond, I just use a thin drop of Superglue, which can then be covered by Heatshrink or preferably,
Air Shrink. When using floss, the Heatshrink is unnecessary.
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/ADD20.jpg)
Now we need to connect the Wind-on leader to the mainline... this is how:
WIND-ON LEADER CONNECTION TO MAINLINE
USING THE MODIFIED CATS PAW KNOT
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/ADD21.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/ADD22.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/ADD23.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/ADD24.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/ADD25.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/ADD26.jpg)
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/ADD27.jpg)
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great, thanks heaps mate, gonna pick up the dacron tomorrow and give it a shot!
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Hi Cuthbad...
:welc:
Read your report on the Aus forum fishwrecked.com... thanks for your support! Tried to join the forum there but there was no reply from admin!?
Just glad to be of assistance to guys from different parts of the world!
We certainly do things differently in SA! It's always go BIG or Go Home!
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Cheers mate,
You guys sure have a different outlook on fishing to most of the guys down here. Sharks and rays are rarely targetted over here and the big rays are often seen as just a pest since few people target them or have the gear to land them.
Im slowly learning how to target the BIG fish with slide baits etc, just got a torium 30 with a loomis sharkey on the way so hopefully it will be an interesting summer!
Dunno why admin didnt reply, fishwrecked could use any input you have to offer and both SA and Aus fishos could probably learn a heap from each others fishing styles!
tight lines mate
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Thanks for this one Reefz :win:
Must have made about a dozen of them this week end. Quite addictive, once you have made one you don’t stop!!!
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Shot Craig! For me it's any excuse to satisfy the addiction... gotta have more traces, wind-ons, reels need servicing... again... more, more, more...
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Hi Reefs.
I have another method that Rob Kyle showed me. Do you mind if I post it??
DD
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Why should I mind... ? It's probably the Single splice method that a lot of guys are using at the moment.
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Ha Ha Ha no reply needed lol
Been using that forever.
Thanks T.
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Please don't laugh, I am a offshore angler, before i got my first boat i only targeted eds.
What do you guys use it for? Does it make your leader stronger? Does it make it more abrasive?
Seems like a lot of work to me, why not only using a ticker stronger leader?
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Gerrit... normal leaders up to 1mm are ok to tie a Bimini/Double fig 8, the knot is still manageable to cast. But from 1.2mm leaders and upwards, the knot becomes quite difficult to tie, and forms a big Klomp which you then have to cast through your guides. So some clever boykies decided to use the Offshore method of wind-ons and adapted it to the R/S game... the join between a windon and the mainline is MUCH smaller and smoother than it would be with straight nylon.
So now the guys can use leaders all the way up to 1.8mm and even 2mm, and cast them without ripping your guides off the rod.
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Gerrit the wind on leader is only a means to using a thicker leader line. Basically what the wind on leader does is reduce the size of the knot knot between main line and leader line. This should result in less tip guides being damaged when casting thick leader lines. Leaders above 0.6mm tend to make very big knots. Large leader knots also cut thumbs when casting.
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Sorry Reefz was typing when you posted.
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Thanks guys, makes sense.
Looks like will be buying R&S tackle again, the wife got this idea that we can go to the beach as a family, kids can play in the sand, wife can tan and dad can fish.
She even checks windguru before the weekend, even figured out that i don't go off shore in a east. So when the wind is bad we have to go the beach as a family.
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Besides the advantage of not loosing guides and chunks out of the thumb ,its easier to put pressure on the dacron thats on the spool with the thumb when casting heavier sinkers , no slippage of spool as the pressure builds up through the cast.
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Gerrit ... you will see thet Reefman and myself have quite a differance in the maximum leader line thickness that we will tie directly to the main line. This is just a matter of preferance and maybe more importantly determined by the size of the rod guides. I will occasionally also tie a 1mm leader when I do not have any windons left although my guides are only size 12.
And Mike has a very valid point, Dacron is not slippery when wet .
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and you will use the wind on leaders to target in-eds?
Surely no need for it if only targeting eds?
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I fished with a 1.8mm wind on not to long ago...dam, it is alot thicker than you think!!! Shame poor fish didnt have a chance and it no fun if you ask me...So i decided i wouldnt use a leader heavier that 1.4mm...I thought about it and have a good point because most of my big fish were landed mostly on 1mm maxima and not even a wind-on...my 228kg raggie, 109kg+85kg Blackfin and a couple other big sharks were all caught on 1mm maxima
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For in-eds definitely. I use 1.2 to 1.6mm leaders.(sometimes even thicker).
I do use windons for edibles. It all depends on the area and the species you are fishing for.
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Wind on leaders i use are from 1mm to 1.6mm , 1mm , 1.2mm up to 1.4 for beach use for targeting in -eds.. although if a kingie picks u up he is going to look for structure to cut u off so using 1 - 1.4 on beach just gives u added protection , 1.4mm to 1.8mm good on very rocky areas like t/kei more protection + u can grab the leader when fish is close, makes it easier to land.... but as usual they not bullet proof and can still get cut off on sharp mussels and rock structure.
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Making smaller wind-on's is also not that easy , i tend to use stepped tapered leaders or normal leader up to about .90 and then switch to 1mm wind-on's
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Wind on leaders i use are from 1mm to 1.6mm , 1mm , 1.2mm up to 1.4 for beach use for targeting in -eds.. although if a kingie picks u up he is going to look for structure to cut u off so using 1 - 1.4 on beach just gives u added protection , 1.4mm to 1.8mm good on very rocky areas like t/kei more protection + u can grab the leader when fish is close, makes it easier to land.... but as usual they not bullet proof and can still get cut off on sharp mussels and rock structure.
Ah uh....last time someone leadered my fish ended up with stiches on there forehead from my rod holder! People under estimate how simple it is to lose your fish by grabbing the leader...prob one of the worst thing to do
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:shk .... only those last meter or two just to get to the fish, no violent pulling just steady pressure.. ??
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I understand what you saying...but still if you think about it you putting the pressure diarectly onto the hook and iv seen plenty people pull hooks, straighten them and sometimes even clip the leader causing it to part...rather just pull hard with the rod as the bend in the rod takes the pressure off the hook which you stand more of a chacne landing your fish
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True , that makes sense especially with hooks pulling , bending straight as then u have direct pressure on the fish , no stretch in leader at 1 meter at all so the hook takes all the force and lets go . :sml:
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You see I'm not as dumb as I look :craz: ...but when it comes to fishing I know what I'm talking about and doing :sml:
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You see I'm not as dumb as I look :craz: ...but when it comes to fishing I know what I'm talking about and doing :sml:
JY DINK JYS COOLER AS EKKE (bat
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so i finally got round to giving this a shot and im stuck....
got some 80lb dacron, managed to splice it 5 or so times leaving a small loop, passed the threading needle through one leg of the dacron and out near the bottom splice, passed the other leg through the threading needle but now i cant get the second leg back through the inside of the first. I have been trying for a couple of hours, broken the threading needle, yelled and swore at it, went n had a beer, then came back and yelled and swore some more. cant get it....
it seems when the second leg is essentially doubled by passing it through the needle eye then trying to pull the needle back through it becomes too thick to pass through the inside of the first leg.
Please, what the hell am i doing wrong? could it be that only certain brands of dacron are appropriate for this?
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Once you've threaded the needle through the first leg right up to the splice, penetrate the 1st leg and thread the 2nd leg through the threader eye. Now bunch the first leg up all the way to the top. Slowly pull the 2nd leg through, all the time, keep bunching the 1st leg up... that will do it.
(http://africanaquatics.co.za/FISHING/Fishing%20stuff/WIND-ON%20LEADERS/ADD15.jpg)
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thanks reefs, after getting some advice about the dacron i had bought i ordered some cortlands green spot online. It arrived today and after an hour i had made my first wind on, another half hour and I had three more done. The other stuff just wasnt right for the job at all
Thanks again foir the awesome post! DIY wind-ons havent cought on much at all here yet for land based game, but i reckon they will. these things are great!
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Cuthbad... if you guys aren't using wind-ons, are you still using straight mainline to leader? The reason we use these now, is because the larger diameter leaders 1.2mm and above, make a mess of your rod guides when casting an ordinary knot. Be interested to know how the Aussies do it?
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most of the land based game fishing here is done using baloons, as such casting is not necesary. more and more the sliding technique is catching on though and we are starting to see slides and other "South African style" gear being sold over here. Alternatively kayaks are also used to get big baits out some times.
to me sliding baits is a more "pure" style of fishing. the more i learn about it the more i love it!
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one more question, could basic sowing thread be used in place of the braid or dental floss when covering this with UV knot sense? i cant see why not but i thought i would check.
cheers
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Not sure whether sewing thread is as strong as Dental floss? Floss has very high tensile strength for it's value.
Once you've glued the floss, it also kinda gels together to form a flexible bond that works very well.
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Bringing up an old thread here. What is Pliobond and where can I get some? Are there any other glues that can be used? I am quite interested in trying to make a couple of windons. Got some awesome ones from lenny and now not looking back
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Pliobond started out as a Wood glue many years ago. Now they use it for many things. Main benefits are that it is flexible and doesn't crack. There's no point having a brittle knot that will crack on being bent.
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thanks
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Can someone help, where can I get airshrink in pretoria?
Thank you
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Can someone help, where can I get airshrink in pretoria?
Thank you
Bru , I don't know about airshirk , I am afraid of shrinking awl the air .. LOL
But HEAT shrink , you can find at most hardware stores , electrical stores , most talk shops stock it nowadays too .
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one more question, could basic sowing thread be used in place of the braid or dental floss when covering this with UV knot sense? i cant see why not but i thought i would check.
cheers
Sowing thread I would avoid its too this ., rather get yourself a Fly tying bobbin , and some flat waxed Thick fly tying thread . Sold and made over 4000 the past few years , very smooth thin finish . I never did , and never will use Dental floss , if the material are available , why go stone age using floss , besides , you will never get the floss as neat as the FLytying thread .
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Hi Lenny looking for some wind ons. Can you assist ?
:fshn:
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Howzit .
Yes I can have a bunch of fresh one made last week .
You can pm me , and we can take it further .
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You can pm me , and we can take it further .
No, he can't pm you. It is only available for Senior Members and above.
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O h shucks , only saw now ,
Yes bru sorry , you could email me on Ltvolker. @ gmail.
No spaces no full stops , dot com .
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Thanks Lenny.
Email sent
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This thread is now more than 10 years old and remains top quality knowledge base. :beer:
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Been making them having followed the tutorial for many years, at least as long as its been on here, maybe even when it was ont he other site.
Have never had a failure, the marlin i caught lasdt week was on one, and not an inch of movement. Best thing I ever learnt from this site, and i have learnt a lot.
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Awesome testimonials!! :ayb
12 years later, I still haven't come across anything that beats these Windon leaders for sheer strength and durability.
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Yep , it’s all true .
I have Basicly , made a small business out of some tips I gathered here .
Thanks reefman.
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Yep , it’s all true .
I have Basicly , made a small business out of some tips I gathered here .
Thanks reefman.
You're a champ Lenny! :win:
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Those wind on leaders are bullet proof , made all of mine as per the thread , never had one fail ... ever ..im sure you can tow a small car with them .. :Like: