Are We Missing Something As Fly Fishers???

[E.T.]

I would like to refer to the Front Page of the New Tight Lines Mag, the one with the 15kg plus Large Mouth Yellow on it. That fish has a head like a Cob.
Could't help myself taking this copy home. Now on pages 64-66 they discuss fishing for yellows on artlure.

Now you will note the monster LM caught by Nic Louw and the Massive LS caught by Rudolph Venter on a Salmo Hornet No.4.

Now I know that there are very good patterns available on the market and synthetics are sure taking baitfish patterns to a new level. And yes there is a matter of success to be had with these sort of flies. What I am not getting is that the artlure okes goes out and catch some good fish constantly.

What is it then? Is it the lure itself? The action as it swims in the water? The rattle sounds? I believe that the plop into the water is a key attractor. On lure I once caught 2 Barbel and a Makriel(Butter Barbel) in 3 casts.

Shouldn't we as flyfishers/ tyers start implementing rattles, cones, lips, etc. to our patterns?

On Sterkies we go fine tippets and pretty small flies and with a stealthy approach while the Artlure okes catch just as many and maybe better sized SM Yellows on lures like Salmo Minnows? I have seen some good sized LM from Sterkies caught on lures.

I am looking at new baitfish patterns and ways to improve action, profile, hook-ups for fresh and saltwater and I came accross a guy named Jonny King. Google the name and you will find some patterns on Facebook. He also has some videos on Youtube. He has some lovely patterns and a rattle tied in might just do the trick.

Is there anything else out there? Should we stick to what we have available or is there any hope in catching that throphy yellow consistantly.

Don't know about you, but I am tired of catching smallish LS and SS Yellows. Have caught a brute of a SM Yellow on Fly, but the LM has elluded me till now and I think that this year I might just get lucky.

[E.T.]

Boys

I know this is probably not the right place to put this but I want to know if we can incorporate some of the elements of lures into flies as for baitfish patterns in particular.

I am talking about action, shape/profile, the way it behaves in the water, etc.
We all know that Rapala has accounted for numerous world records all over. So the question remains, what can we do to better our patterns to hook trophy yellows on baitfish patterns. Up till now we have targeted Yellows(SM, SS, LS, Papermouth, Whitefish, etc.) on smallish flies like nymhs. I am thinking that we could open up something completely new by looking at the properties of lures.

Why do massive LS Yellows hit Salmo Minnows while we as flyfishers struggle to hook one bigger than 20cm on fly? Is it because these lures are retrieved at the right dephth? So how do we make our baitfish flies swim at the right depth without adding a ton of weight? How do we create a fly to immitate a dying baitfish?

The dying baitfish darting on its side, I have accomplished with a Puglishi Baitfish tied with domed plastic dolls eyes glued to it. A killer for bass.

Here are a few patterns that will push water, cause disturbance based on profile etc....

Ala Jonny King....

[E.T.]

A few more...

[E.T.]

Puglisi Baitfish tied with Angel Silk...


This fly moves even when going straight down and once you start retrieving it, it lies on its side and behaves like a dying baitfish darting on its side.

Note the eyes, this is the key factor to its success;)

[E.T.]

Surely there must be minuture cona heads out there that can be incorporated into baitfish patterns that will make the fly either dive or move either just below or on the surface.

I reckon the key success to Lures is the plop on the water. Now bare in mind I must still be able to cast these patterns on a fly rod and I am not looking at trying to cast these to the oposite bank. I am looking at getting the flies to swim at the right depth and to temp the fish in such a way that they find it irresistable.

I look forward to your replies?

[Capt. Hook]

Way ahead of you ET.

I made a fly based on a mini kona, and made a resin head and some feathers in a tube fly format.

Besides Dorado, Yellowfin, Bonnies and Kawa Kawa, it also landed us a 40Kg Sailfish and you can see the same fly around its bill.

[E.T.]

Way ahead of you ET.

I made a fly based on a mini kona, and made a resin head and some feathers in a tube fly format.

Besides Dorado, Yellowfin, Bonnies and Kawa Kawa, it also landed us a 40Kg Sailfish and you can see the same fly around its bill.

I was hoping that you would take the bait
I would like to do something similar, but I reckon I would have to mould a resin head onto the hook and then tie the fly. Chucking a big fly like that for freshwater gamefish will kill my arms.

For the Salt your patterrn is the business. I take it that your fly is a topwater pattern?
Do you let it out and simply retrieve it in or do yu troll it?

Oh those fish are a good reward for such a good pattern

[Capt. Hook]

I was hoping that you would take the bait
I would like to do something similar, but I reckon I would have to mould a resin head onto the hook and then tie the fly. Chucking a big fly like that for freshwater gamefish will kill my arms.

For the Salt your patterrn is the business. I take it that your fly is a topwater pattern?
Do you let it out and simply retrieve it in or do yu troll it?

Cast and retrieve at the FADS, you need a minimum of a 12wt to cast that fly, and it does sink slowly but was intended to be fished as a topwater bait and when retrieved it leaves and awesome bubble trail. The fly has a 10mm dia head and is 12cm long, by making it a Tube fly with smaller hooks it only weighs 2gr.

Stick to the tube idea for freshwater as you can use smaller hooks which keep the weight down.

For Freshwater I learnt a lot by fishing with hard plastics and soft plastics and I do not think that the PLOP has anything to do with it. If you want a rattle you can buy thise small glass wrattles that teh Bass guys use to enhance theri soft plastics.

I think the shape and movement is the key..

Before I say more, tell me what would be a the main 2 methods to target trout on rivers and streams?????

[E.T.]

Mike

I am aware of the rattles.

Trout on Streams. Where? Drakensberg?

2 Main things? A rod and a stream

Just joking, for trout streams I would go Dry or Nymph or Dry with a Dropper.
If nothing wants to work and you know there are fish, you let line out downstream and strip back a wooly bugger or Walkerskiller.

These are the flies I would suggest

Dries:
CDC & Elk (I tie one with orange rubber legs)
Beetles
Foam Hoppers (I tie mine on 14 Hopper Hooks and they are all and all about 3-4cm long)
Stimulators

Nymphs:
Zak
Hot Spot Pheasant Tail Nymp
Flashback PTN
GRHE in Olive and Natural
Flymph

On any KZN, Eastern Cape and Lesotho Stream the CDC & Elk and the big foam hopper will draw fish from the bottom. I have seen fish rise from more than 2m deep to sip these up. Ahh and they love them in fast water.

Start out dry and dropper. If the fish hit the dry, skip the dropper and fish dry only. If they keep hitting the dropper/nymph or nothing fish nymphs and maybe even deeper.

Rods? 3wt is fine, but a 1wt won't hurt either. Is this what you wanted to hear?

[Capt. Hook]

Ok, let me answer.

Usually trout in rivers are targeted with dry flies or nymphs.

But..........

They are predators, and watching the way the guys in Japan fish for Cherry Salmon with hard plastics, and in fact larger salmon species and the guys in NZ, I took these factors, lures and retreives into consideration.

So I made a wet fly for river fishing, it was large and I used some of the key colours that they use on the hard plastics. Red & White for contrast, orange belly and used a down eye and tied it in a deceiver pattern, then once the leader was on, I closed the hole of the down eye with UV glue to make a small lip.

Then I fished this fly like a small lipped lure on a sinking line cast up stream and retrived back fast....

Guess what, I never fish with dry flies or nymphs anymore as with this method, I have caught more trout and bigger trout than ever before and probably outfish my old methids 6:1

This proves the theory of shape and movement.

[E.T.]

Mike on larger rivers for sure, but on Smallstreams I love fishing dry fly.
A good friend of mine fishes a pencil popper stripped back fast on rivers and lakes and he has the same success as you.

That fly in the browns mouth is a killer. The Trout Fishing Purists will crucify you if they see you fishing that pattern.

You are right in terms of movemnet, etc. And that is what I want to accomplish by taking fish that has been know to only take nymphs and the odd dry.

There is an American Flytyer(the name slipped me) who ties patterns for Bass and Trout and I have caught my fair share of bass and trout on them.

Here are a few...

[Capt. Hook]

I am way past being a purist, I was there once but now for me I wanna try all sorts of things so I can learn to understand fish and lures better, with all the various types of fishng I have done and am doing I would consider myself a hybrid angler because I cross my knowledge over species, fresh & salt, fly, lure and bait.

Ever tried spinning for trout???? Awesome fun.

Then I took some Zack Nymphs and PTN's and trolled them off shore on light tackle, in a spread of 5 lines, killer for small bonnies, quennies, snoek and all sorts.

In the "Purist" days a 38cm Brown of the Bushmans was my PB for many years on fly, now it is over 60cm and I am trying for a 70cm fish as a new PB, I used to fish 2-3wts, now I fish with 4-6wts because of the size of the flies and the fish. I have even had a large brown male take a smaller fish that I was fighting, and with these new patterns the trout become so more agressive that it adds a whole new dimension to the fishing.
The same goes for yellows, have caught some beasts on the vaal using larger flies.

[E.T.]

Mike do you want to come clean here? Are you a retired poacher? 
I know that you can fill a cooler box with trout in less than an hour on spinners and rappies.

Mike you are onto something here and I have to agree with you. Smaller fish tend to take nymphs, dries, etc. but the bigger they get I reckon they turn predatory and even omnivores. Thats why large smallmouth yellows take big streamers and even baitfish patterns when stripped back upstream.

A few years ago people swore by large Woolly Buggers as the fly for Largies and the odd SM. Now reports are doing the rounds of big SM coming out on SF Baitfish Patterns like the ones tied by Jonny King. I can't remember when last did I see a big, a really big SM coming out on nymphs.

 

[E.T.]

Mike

I have to fish the KZN Streams with you at some stage. I want to see you in action. I will sit on a rock and take notes

You say 70cm? I reckon you will only gte that size in Lesotho, but I will net it for you if you do hook one on a KZN Stream

[Capt. Hook]

Mike do you want to come clean here? Are you a retired poacher? 
I know that you can fill a cooler box with trout in less than an hour on spinners and rappies.

Mike you are onto something here and I have to agree with you. Smaller fish tend to take nymphs, dries, etc. but the bigger they get I reckon they turn predatory and even omnivores. Thats why large smallmouth yellows take big streamers and even baitfish patterns when stripped back upstream.

A few years ago people swore by large Woolly Buggers as the fly for Largies and the odd SM. Now reports are doing the rounds of big SM coming out on SF Baitfish Patterns like the ones tied by Jonny King. I can't remember when last did I see a big, a really big SM coming out on nymphs.

  No poacher, just like to experiment and am tired of some old f@rts making stupid "purist" rules to restrict me, I wanna try things out and learn things. By spinning I am reffering to hard plastic lipped lures. PS Trout do not like rattles.

For the rest, bigger lures = bigger fish, but form & movement is the key and this aplles to lures and flies.

[Capt. Hook]

Mike

I have to fish the KZN Streams with you at some stage. I want to see you in action. I will sit on a rock and take notes

You say 70cm? I reckon you will only gte that size in Lesotho, but I will net it for you if you do hook one on a KZN Stream

Check these out.

[E.T.]

No poacher, just like to experiment and am tired of some old f@rts making stupid "purist" rules to restrict me, I wanna try things out and learn things. By spinning I am reffering to hard plastic lipped lures. PS Trout do not like rattles.

For the rest, bigger lures + bigger fish, but form & movement is the key and this aplles to lures and flies.

Spinning on a stream in S.A.? Eish you like living on the edge. 
I have no problems with people trying new things.

Shape, profile, movement is key. I agree 100%

[Capt. Hook]

So to answer your initial question, yes fly fishers are missing out and missing the point, mostly because they restrict themsleves.

[E.T.]

Check these out.

Those are some lovely fish? Where were they taken? They let my 16 inch PB Brown look like a negative of the real photo

[Capt. Hook]

Those are some lovely fish? Where were they taken? They let my 16 inch PB Brown look like a negative of the real photo

In a KZN River called the Bushmans, the last 2 fish were caught about a month ago, the 1 is 57cm and the other is 60cm, the 1st fish is 58cm. 7-9cm flies were used.