leerie/ garrick stock destruction

[simon]

Hi there Gents,


Just posting this a i truly believe this sort of thing should be seen by the masses. May it instill guilt in those that perform such heinous acts, keep those who try do preserve our stocks, doing so and possibly help to educate those that dont know better.
This is the scene from Port snt Johns over the last week.
I have tried to post pictures that do not show faces, but at this stage i really do not care.

[MIKE PIKE]

  .

[simon]

Anglers try and say that recreational fishing pressure is not the reason for the decimation of our stocks and instead shift blame to comercial fisharies / chinese trawlers etc, which undoutebly do massive harm. But in truth, this exact thing is the cause for major stock destruction of our inshore species.
Please tell me, what is this but a commercial fishing opperation. As without a doubt , these fish will be sold.

[simon]

all pics ( including the many with faces) will be forwarded directly head of water affairs and forestry, and in turn passed on to concervation officers who will hopefully take action, if none has already been taken.

[Visenvryheid]

Agreed..sickening...Those prime breeding stock have probably been caught a few times and carefully released by fellow anglers in the hope that they can grow big and help replenish the stock..But then you just need one mullet to ruin everyones show.. It high time our breeding stocks were protected by law and actually policed with some real resources..

[RiyadhEd]

all pics ( including the many with faces) will be forwarded directly head of water affairs and forestry, and in turn passed on to concervation officers who will hopefully take action, if none has already been taken.

I would really like to know what action is taken. I have yet to experience where such transgressors get a fine for the very least.

[Grumpy]

Transkei and PSJ has long been the centre of poaching and rampant over exploitation for decades by locals and visitors.  It is often seen as a private atm for many to take the risk and put cash in their pockets. When you see the prices being paid for fresh fish collected and transported at night , headed for the Gauteng area it's not surprising. Boats are sometimes returning with in excess of a ton of Coppers which get sold. Over R80 per kg. Not bad for a days fishing. And that's just the recromercials. The buyers rendezvous at remote spots to collect fish and drive through the night to GP. Often by first light they are already hundreds of km away from coast. It seems to be a well orchestrated operation. Can only go from bad to worse.

[simon]

Unfortunately this is very often the case. And it is not a case of those whose duty it is being lazy or not caring. Sadly concervation in south africa is extremely under funded and short handed. This is due to the fact that it is in fact beneficial to our government to have poor concervation, in a very short sighted way though it is. These images have been forwarded to people i know care as much as we do and will put in the effort, should they have the time and funding. Sadly this kind of situation continues throughout our entire coastline and tending to all of them is a practical impossibility.


Grumpy,
The copper situation is dire. Just last weekend i was sent images of guys spearfishing coppers off Mdumbi point using scuba gear. The local who was with the mate whom sent me the images claims they spear them out, drop them in the surf weighted down and pay the locals or a gilli to swim them in through the mouth.the latter part i cannot confirm as truth though with no reason for this gent, whom is a friend of ours to lie, this is absolutely disgusting greed and abuse of an indigenous species which stocks are already beyond decimated. Coppers should truly be made a no land species, though with the mind set and behaviour of a large percentage of our fellow South Africans, this would make no difference whatsoever.

[Visenvryheid]

Yes I fully agree some species should be "No land" species..Could you imagine the waters and rocky bays and headlands, points and all from cape point to mbumbi filled once more with 50kg coppers like they used to be.. There used to be a red tide in the old days that was a run of large spawning fish from the southern waters once a year up to the kei that used to mesmerise ships passing it at sea. I don't think that has occured in decades..In days old there are reports from shipwrecks of survivors getting attacked by large red fish with canine incisors? Could you imagine a catch and release fishery like that and what that could do for tourism! Forget blue groper, red steenbras should be at the top once again! Majestic long lived and slow to reproduce species like coppers are worth far more to the community than taken out to sell or eat. Saffas tend to be short sighted though.

Yeah the stories of copper commercial poaching abound north and south on the wild coast I too have heard tales and tales and tales...PSJ Mdumbe and others same places keep on cropping up. The main culprit I think was killed in a car accident some time ago with a bakkie load of coppers strewn over the grass on the side of the road..RIP but people weren't mourning the loss of poaching pressure but it seems others have just stepped in to carry on the plunder..

[Visenvryheid]

Here is an enchanting lesson in history, and fishing history at that..The king of gamefish that equivalent to leeries in their own realm spawned the sport of modern fishing, and its collapse and the subsequent rise of fish conservation and all...It is not like history does not repeat itself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKeJQb8jhgA

A really really good watch. There were studies in the states that valued a large adult tarpon at equivalent to over a million rand over its life to the economy in terms of catch and release sport fishing. Now there are some species that can support commercial line harvest and there are some that cant. None can support indiscriminate harvest. Some species are worth far far far more to leave in the water. These days in the states in is illegal as far as i know to even remove a large adult tarpon from the water for a photo post capture..The fishery is huge and worth more money than we can imagine. The tarpon fishery today is worth the GDP of a small country and the stocks are in very good shape better than decades ago!

[tkei]

Unfortunately this is very often the case. And it is not a case of those whose duty it is being lazy or not caring. Sadly concervation in south africa is extremely under funded and short handed. This is due to the fact that it is in fact beneficial to our government to have poor concervation, in a very short sighted way though it is. These images have been forwarded to people i know care as much as we do and will put in the effort, should they have the time and funding. Sadly this kind of situation continues throughout our entire coastline and tending to all of them is a practical impossibility.


Grumpy,
The copper situation is dire. Just last weekend i was sent images of guys spearfishing coppers off Mdumbi point using scuba gear. The local who was with the mate whom sent me the images claims they spear them out, drop them in the surf weighted down and pay the locals or a gilli to swim them in through the mouth.the latter part i cannot confirm as truth though with no reason for this gent, whom is a friend of ours to lie, this is absolutely disgusting greed and abuse of an indigenous species which stocks are already beyond decimated. Coppers should truly be made a no land species, though with the mind set and behavior of a large percentage of our fellow South Africans, this would make no difference whatsoever.

Simon,
Please can you PM me the details of the Mdumbi spearing incidents. I am the Vice Commodore of Mdumbi Ski Boat Club and take these issues very seriously. Unfortunately I am now in CT so a bit far from the action but will take it up.
I would appreciate any info i can get.
+_ 10yrs ago I  posted on another fishing site about the Recromercials from Kzn (there are also soem from the EC and elsewhere) that were using Mdumbi as a base to plunder. I named and shamed them, and was then taken on legally about it. Well one, Jacques Olivier,  was eventually caught for fishing the reserves around Port Edward, and banned from Shelly Beach I believe. He since moved to Australia and has been caught poaching fish there. I just pray they dont deport him back to SA as then we will have him back.


Unfortunately, the individuals just moved their operations to Mgazana where it is now a free for all. Coppers and 74 are plundered and moved all hrs of the day  and night to points of sale. "Anonymous tips offs of boats, individuals cottages etc are not acted on by authorities, BUT the names of the reporters are circulated.
Last year there were so many KZN boats fishing Mgazana area that it ended up with a famous copper area literally being fished out Mid breeding season. The boats ended up running Mdumbi way to look for coppers as Mgazana was depleted completely.


The Ban on 74's did not stop them. They murder them up there. During the Copper ban there were "fishmongers" in KZN with loads of coppers in the cold rooms. One of the fish mongers has bought and supplied a boat to a Local that was a gillie. He now runs his own operation. He wass seen loading over 15 coppers between 2 on the boat. When confronted his response was its his homeland, and his fish. he does what he wants. Of course, imagine the money he is making.

[simon]

Hi there Tkei,


I will have all the information aswel as pictures sent to you by the end of the day today. After seeing your message this morning i called the local we know there and he says the same guys are still there today going out with boats and diving gear. He also informed me of a big sand mining operation going on accross the river which i will also be reporting to the correct guys. Though unfortunately the mining situation is as severe as the fishing operations.
I have unfortunately been witness to guys destroying the 74 in the kei. It is truly the epitomy of greed and if anglers such as ourselves take no action and turn a blind eye, we really are not much better. so i urge all to take the stance you have Tkei sir. report on it all with no bluring of faces. Name them and shame them and make as many who care, fully aware of what is going on. and hopefully instill a sense guilt in those that do nothing or the culprits themselves.

[tkei]

Thanks.
It has been reported over many years to dept of mining, daff,, you name it. Nothing. The mining group are Dangerous. The headman has had his family threatened if they try to stop them. Sadly I was informed the mining is moving to the mdumbi side of the little river. Not ideal for the cottage owners, or the environment. The community are aware and are trying their best, but they are also afraid.

[Visenvryheid]

Thanks.
It has been reported over many years to dept of mining, daff,, you name it. Nothing. The mining group are Dangerous. The headman has had his family threatened if they try to stop them. Sadly I was informed the mining is moving to the mdumbi side of the little river. Not ideal for the cottage owners, or the environment. The community are aware and are trying their best, but they are also afraid.

I've tried to stop the sand mining there for years, called and been party to community meetings, tried to setup compost businesses to create value from the land (which really took off well and made 100k for the community in no time, trucks coming from as far as umtata to collect compost until there was enough money then it all went to SAB and the community were left hungry and fuming at their own but what can I do?), tried to teach them that instead of just mine the land once off and then ja try stop big scale mining when it arrives after messing it all up yourself already, no leg to stand on!? They'll be doomed as there is titanium in them there hills! I've seen it forged with my own eyes. I've seen hillsides, food gardens and rondavels being swallowed by the sand operations. Look at historical pictures on google earth to see how bad it has become. I gave up in the end, the lure of a quick R300 for selling your kids inheritance a truck load at a time is too much and I've just had the money eaten (or drunk) one too many times, left them to their own devices once meth entered the neighborhood, I got the hell out! Would love to go haven't been there in years..as jy dom is dan moet jy k@K but its is such a beautiful place and the people can be some of the best you will meet, in among the skebangas..its a shame.

[Visenvryheid]

Problem is with the as jy dom dan moet jy k@k attitude though is their domness is affecting me! Their are milking my and your breeding stocks of leervis, 74's.. coppers, black steenbras etc...they are affecting my future fishing and making me k@k for their domness..that gets me riled. And is more than a shame, it pees me the hell off!