Author Topic: Braid to Braid (Read 18145 times)

glynnkent · « **on:** April 24, 2016, 04:27:26 PM »

Hi There

I was hoping Reefz or someone out there could shed some light on the best way to join braid to braid as a terminal knot.

I bought some suffix 832 50lb for my offshore spinning setup and only ended up using 2/3 to spool my reel, so I gave the rest to my friend to fill his reel with.

Would an albright be a decent option to go with to join the the 832 to his old braid? Or is it not worthwhile joining braid to braid at all? I also don't think I standard double fig.8 would work as braid loses its strength if not wrapped (so I'm told).

Thanks in advance. It just seems a bit of a waste for 200m of good braid to go to waste.

Cheers

MIKE PIKE · « **Reply #1 on:** April 24, 2016, 07:21:55 PM »

3 options here glynnkent , either stich a loop into each end of the braid an catspaw the 2 together , or a bimini loop in each end and cats paw 2 together , and lastly a 7 turn uni in each end and slide up tight to each other .

travelmember · « **Reply #2 on:** April 24, 2016, 07:29:46 PM »

There a quite a few threads and contributors re this subject. The general concensus seems to involve stitching.

Personally I tie a 30 turn bimini in each and loop to loop through 3 times. It is about an 80% knot. Now 80% of 50lb 832 (mine breaks at 64lb but is 2 seasons old) is 51lb. If you have 51lb of drag on the knot (bearing in mind you have 200m or more out before the knot is off the spool) then you should be in training for the Olympics!

glynnkent · « **Reply #3 on:** April 24, 2016, 07:36:30 PM »

Thanks for the advice guys, much appreciated.

Think I'll go with the double bimini as I'm not that experienced at doing braid stitches.

REEFMAN · « **Reply #4 on:** April 24, 2016, 07:40:41 PM »

Stitching the 2 ends of braid into each other would be the best, with stitching 2 loops and Cats Paw the loops 2nd best, and Bimini 2 loops with a Cats Paw 3rd.

Glynn have a quick look at this thread, stitching is really easy.... http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php?topic=74.0

glynnkent · « **Reply #5 on:** April 24, 2016, 08:14:08 PM »

Thanks Reefz, I'll give it a go. Thanks for the help!

Visenvryheid · « **Reply #6 on:** April 24, 2016, 09:02:27 PM »

As Reefs said, stitch one into other 20 times, then other in it 20 times and it is never coming undone. Been using them for 2 seasons and never had one fail me, touch wood, and I have tested them on many hard fighting fishes :) I reckon its stronger than either line used and as 100% as you're gonna get. Also takes 5 minutes to do under a nice light and is not hard, flatten your line and take the twists out first. I wouldn't bother with any knot although I can tie them for this, in fact I normally just change half a spool at a time normally when top line is tired and just stitch a new front end of line when needed much easier on the pocket, the stitch comes in very handy for this.

It is also easy to join braid casting leaders like this, at home, for spinning, if you have to do it on the beach, boat or rocks then you have to knot rather. I reckon for me one the major advantages of braid is the ability to join lines 100% with a stitch, you don't have a simple connection that streamlined and that strong for mono..

PatrickH · « **Reply #7 on:** June 17, 2016, 05:52:57 PM »

Hi Guys,

I have trying to find a suitable knot for joining mainline braid to braid leader

Have tried the braid stitch leader loop to bimini via modified catspaw but find it takes too long.

I have come up with the following knot and would like your opinion on it as well as it"s strength compared to uni to uni and braid stitch loop to bimini

Tie a 5 turn uni in the braid leader around mainline braid. Tighten and trim off tag end.

Take the mainline braid tag end and wrap up the leader 10 times and then back down criss crossing to the uni 10 times.

Insert the tag in the loop between the first loop and the uni.

Tighten slowly making sure the loops cross evenly and then trim off the tag end

Looks to be the Bob Sands braid to mono knot

Haroldg · « **Reply #8 on:** June 17, 2016, 06:22:55 PM »

PatrickH - this sounds like the Bob Sands knot joining mono to braid. Works very well using mono to braid and no reason why it shouldn't work with braid to braid. Test it out on the bench and compare the results.

Regarding the braid stitch join - I've experimented with this for joining a braid leader to braid mainline. This is arguably the strongest join. I stopped using it because the tag ends on both sides hang loose and this started to bug me. I tried clipping the ends close but this does not help as the ends come loose again. If the loose ends don't bother you this the recommended method. For a join far down the line this shouldn't be an issue.

I eventually settled for the FG knot for a braid leader and would rather use the braid stitch method for a join deep down the spool.

fishatic · « **Reply #9 on:** June 18, 2016, 06:50:19 AM »

Bob Sands.
Use it often for braid main line to braid leader as well as braid main line to mono leader; great knot.
8 up and 8 down is seems to be enough then tie a 2 turn uni over the main line and tag, 5 turns creates too much bulk, all you are wanting to do is create a jam-point.
Tighten the uni (but not very hard)
Pull on tag and main line to cinch up the wraps, once they are fairly tight and close to the uni, cinch the uni down hard, then fully tighten the main line and tag.

PatrickH · « **Reply #10 on:** June 18, 2016, 10:13:17 AM »

Thanks Guys.
Any idea of the percentage strength ?

Psy · « **Reply #11 on:** June 18, 2016, 08:00:10 PM »

Braid Stich 90% + , very time consuming and can't be done on the beach.

For braid to braid leader I use a Bob Sands ~ excellent taper to pass the guides without any knocking noise!

http://www.paulusjustfishing.com/forum.htm

PatrickH · « **Reply #12 on:** June 19, 2016, 11:05:01 AM »

Thanks guys, My problem is sorted I now have a quick easy and thin knot which does not compromise the strength of the braid.
Haroldg,with regards to the loose tag ends when using the stitch method, Paulus on his website advocates using a 7 turn uni on each of the tag ends to finish off the stitch.
It apparently strengthens the connection and will eliminate tag end issues
Regards
Patrick

Psy · « **Reply #13 on:** June 19, 2016, 11:12:19 AM »

A 7 turn uni is probably more efficient than a series of half hitches. The Uni will lock down (inside) and seal off, any means of the 'ends' coming undone.
You can also utilise Knot Sense ~ paint it over the stitch knot.

Its pliable and will coat the knot.

dodger · « **Reply #14 on:** June 19, 2016, 11:54:02 AM »

I use the good old double grinner knot it works for me

fishatic · « **Reply #15 on:** June 19, 2016, 12:47:54 PM »

It's not that the double grinner doesn't work, this just works better.
Try it out.
Knot is tiny and very strong.
You can easily cast a 25lb to 80lb knot through size 6 guides.

Psy · « **Reply #16 on:** June 19, 2016, 01:15:53 PM »

Grinner Knot or double Uni Knot ~ paulus advocates 44% bs.

"Grinner Knot. Results on :- Lighter braids* Medium braids* Heavier braids*
This knot takes a little time to do, doing the twists then back through is a little fiddly.
I used a 58 lb Tasline braid with a 0.344mm average diameter and Not folded in the knot.
Folding the braid would not be possible in this knot. The tag faces forward from the knot, a better knot would be available.
You can do this a few ways so I did one as a chain link.6 turns then 6 turns back through, did this both sides, tested 15.81lb. Thought I must have done that wrong so did it again, tested 16.20lb. That is only 27% of abs.Then I tried it with one line overlapping the other and doing 10 turns up and 10 turns back through, same on the other side, that tested 25.83lb, that is 44% of abs."
Most braid to braid knots will test about 50 to 55%, so this is not a good one at all.

It will work..but for how long?

http://www.paulusjustfishing.com/4knotreview.htm

Trevour · « **Reply #17 on:** June 20, 2016, 06:14:14 AM »

I agree with Psy. Any short type knot is a compromise of strength, and that the miracle 20 second braid knot will never exist. One may be better than the next, but they will never compare to long (in length and time) type knots. Braid needs to transfer pressure gradually weather it from single to double line or from one line to another. To me its either compromise time or strength.

Psy · « **Reply #18 on:** June 20, 2016, 07:30:19 PM »

I tried it...a quick fix...chasing Galjoen.
Lost the leader in the red bait beds and decided to knot the new leader to the braid (dbbl Uni)
Again hooked into the red bait beds and.... poof... I lost the leader and everything forward...etc...

I then added a new braid leader and used a Bob Sands knot with a 4 turn stopper knot on the braid leader. Snagged again in the red bait beds but straight sticking I pulled all the gear clean through.
It proved to me that the Bob's knot had true strength.

Haroldg · « **Reply #19 on:** June 22, 2016, 05:01:51 PM »

Quote from: PatrickH on June 19, 2016, 11:05:01 AM

Thanks guys, My problem is sorted I now have a quick easy and thin knot which does not compromise the strength of the braid.
Haroldg,with regards to the loose tag ends when using the stitch method, Paulus on his website advocates using a 7 turn uni on each of the tag ends to finish off the stitch.
It apparently strengthens the connection and will eliminate tag end issues
Regards
Patrick

So have you settled on the Bob Sands knot then?

Interesting that you mention finishing off the braid stitch join with a uni knot.... I considered using half hitches to do this but a discussion earlier convinced me otherwise as a knot would weaken the join. I was not convinced of this as when pulling really hard found absolutely no give on both the tag ends meaning that the uni/half hitches would not be taking any strain. Thanks for pointing this out as I do actually prefer the braid stitch time permitting...