What do we do about the proliferation of sharks??

[John F]

@Keith and Tunaman... great stuff guys! +cred...

Keep it up!

[Lynski]

Hi Keith
You will give us the site?
Careful you dont get too finicky on this ! Dont know if every angler would like to spend time on 5 m intervals(.From 40 m to 600m could be Marlin and sailies as well a Broadbill.) Or even exact line strengths?
MOST of the time anglers will know what fish was lost. Is that accurate enough for you?
Interesting that the opinion of many anglers seems to be an absence of small sharks!
Thanks.
Tom

[Keith]

Tom, I will give the site once I've got something up and running for testing. Right now I'm still in the planning stage, trying to make sure I've got all my ducks in a row, so to speak.
 
Good point about the water depth... I was just wondering whether 5m intervals would have any "real" significance... from a fishing point of view is there really much difference between 71m and 76m, for example? You guys are the experts on this, though, so I will defer to your opinion(s) on this.
 
Another question that pops into mind: how often do you know what species of shark, and what size, is doing the taxing? Or do you just suddenely have no fish on the end of the line?

[Lynski]

Hi Again Keith
As T M says depth does make a diff for various reasons(eg Slinger at 20m and also at 100m) but it will depend on what u want in your findings.Sharks taking lines at all depths and anglers will name them but will they be correct?Getting info from all of us(We are not experts by any meansbut only fishermen in smelly clothes wo tell lies-LOL) To start your project is going to be a mission.Perhaps a morning with a number of the guys may set you on the right track?
I started this folder a few weeks ago and am now singing off.
Tom

[Libs]

Hey Tom

Answering for/with Keith here. We have had at at least 1 commercial guy from Warner Beach (where the activity is fairly frequent) make the offer to us to come and do some actual 'fieldwork' and see what actually goes on - which I assure you will be done.

The idea of sitting behind a desk and giving explanations for something that is not experienced goes completely against the type of 'embedded' participant observation research that I (we) are supposed to do.

(Please note - this is not an attempt to get to go out on as many offshore fishing trips as we can - would not fish at all - would be there to record 'data' - Keith and I have a total ban on fishing - shore and off-shore - until the end of research - hence our interest in getting it done ASAP). To tempting to indulge under the cover of fieldwork.

But getting a perspective from offshore fishers will be great. Just to even out the balance here - am going out with EKZNW to do inspections as well - I need to see what monitoring is like from their perspective.

Going out and seeing what happens would be great - Because as observers, maybe more creds from the TPTB's - because all fishermen lie. God knows, the first blacktail I caught at 6 has grown from about 500 ounces to at least 1.5 kgs - Hence the title of Phd - A Fishing Tail:......................

[nantes]

hi tom
thanks for what you have done and the efford you have put in
i think a few more people has take note now that we do sit with
problems
 
nantes

[Lynski]

Hi All
It seems that Nantes has been banned from the site ? We all know that he is a little rough around the edges (Like many of us fishermen) If he has a issue with another member and voices it privately is that our problem? I trust this site is not for a few who manage to express their wise opinions  regulary and also advertise their various ocupations?Anyway dont want to start another 8 pages ! Unban guys like nantes into a wonderful world of fishing where all people may express their feelings and knowledge and men can take it on the chin.
Tom
 

[CASTSA]

Hi 

Its a very tough topic, its good to see various opinions,

And the end of the day, we are really not going to know how many sharks there are, are the sharks just every where or is this another prime case of the "bath plug" effect where when fish stocks were up the displacement of fish was vast and widespread in various areas, now that the fish stocks are low and only come to a handful of spots each year and food is an issue, the sharks that we do have left are living where the food stock is high, and by this I mean where we fish as anglers on all the hotspots.
And because they are such intelligent creatures they have learnt where to get a free meal most days and most nights through our angling spots or if they follow the Kob or Geelbek, us on the other had we are slow learners, we pursist and keep fishing those spots and we keep donate our catches to them, can you blame them for evolving?? Can you blame the hundreds of homeless people that flock to the durban beachfront when they are handing out free meals, the answer is NO.
If the shark population was SO high and out of control then WHY are we NOT catching huge numbers off the beaches?? Actually our catches R&S have decreased in the passed year, why??,, McDonalds deep off Durban has a special on Geelbek, the sharks dont have to go hunt for food, why go to the river mouth and actually use that energy to hunt a Grunter on the right tide and the right time of the day/night, when you can stay around a shoal of Bek and you will get it served to you on a platter.

I fish off the boat often, and there is nothing I hate more than to lose a fish to the sharks, but at the end of the day, I believe that we, us as humans and our raping of the oceans fish stocks have put that shark in a position that he now has to congrigate and fight for his meals.

Yes sharks are a pain, we all know that, we can research and research as much as we want, about depths etc, the fact of the matter is, is that these sharks are evolving and i'm sorry to say that in my opinion, the only way to change this would be to stop offshore for a portion of the year and definately stop night fishing.

That is not a dig at anyone, thats in my opinion and a harsh reality......The shark has been around for millions of year, he is clever creature, never mistake him for being a dumbdumb!!

[Fritz]

Hi 

Its a very tough topic, its good to see various opinions,

And the end of the day, we are really not going to know how many sharks there are, are the sharks just every where or is this another prime case of the "bath plug" effect where when fish stocks were up the displacement of fish was vast and widespread in various areas, now that the fish stocks are low and only come to a handful of spots each year and food is an issue, the sharks that we do have left are living where the food stock is high, and by this I mean where we fish as anglers on all the hotspots.
And because they are such intelligent creatures they have learnt where to get a free meal most days and most nights through our angling spots or if they follow the Kob or Geelbek, us on the other had we are slow learners, we pursist and keep fishing those spots and we keep donate our catches to them, can you blame them for evolving?? Can you blame the hundreds of homeless people that flock to the durban beachfront when they are handing out free meals, the answer is NO.
If the shark population was SO high and out of control then WHY are we NOT catching huge numbers off the beaches?? Actually our catches R&S have decreased in the passed year, why??,, McDonalds deep off Durban has a special on Geelbek, the sharks dont have to go hunt for food, why go to the river mouth and actually use that energy to hunt a Grunter on the right tide and the right time of the day/night, when you can stay around a shoal of Bek and you will get it served to you on a platter.

I fish off the boat often, and there is nothing I hate more than to lose a fish to the sharks, but at the end of the day, I believe that we, us as humans and our raping of the oceans fish stocks have put that shark in a position that he now has to congrigate and fight for his meals.

Yes sharks are a pain, we all know that, we can research and research as much as we want, about depths etc, the fact of the matter is, is that these sharks are evolving and i'm sorry to say that in my opinion, the only way to change this would be to stop offshore for a portion of the year and definately stop night fishing.

That is not a dig at anyone, thats in my opinion and a harsh reality......The shark has been around for millions of year, he is clever creature, never mistake him for being a dumbdumb!!

Well spoken.

[Fritz]

Hi All
It seems that Nantes has been banned from the site ? We all know that he is a little rough around the edges (Like many of us fishermen) If he has a issue with another member and voices it privately is that our problem? I trust this site is not for a few who manage to express their wise opinions  regulary and also advertise their various ocupations?Anyway dont want to start another 8 pages ! Unban guys like nantes into a wonderful world of fishing where all people may express their feelings and knowledge and men can take it on the chin.
Tom

Agree with you their Tom. Most of us fisherman are a bit rough around the edges and voicing it privatly is no problem as long as you do so in a decent manor. Taking it on the chin from time to time is no hasle at all.
But what was said at the end of the day was not called for and and no MAN goes around wishing death on a nother persons family.

[SUPER ADMIN]

Hi All
It seems that Nantes has been banned from the site ? We all know that he is a little rough around the edges (Like many of us fishermen) If he has a issue with another member and voices it privately is that our problem? I trust this site is not for a few who manage to express their wise opinions  regulary and also advertise their various ocupations?Anyway dont want to start another 8 pages ! Unban guys like nantes into a wonderful world of fishing where all people may express their feelings and knowledge and men can take it on the chin.
Tom

When someone has an issue with another member, sure, take it privately and discuss it like civilized human beings, not by wishing a curse on another man's family and showing one's totally racist hatred.  To do that to another member would be bad enough, but to do that to a member of Admin?? Not clever. Nantes' has violated many of the rules of this forum and is no longer welcome.

Subject closed. Let's stick to the Topic.

[Lynski]

Fair enough.
Good poimts Castsa.
Tom
 
 

[TUNAMAN]

Hi 

Its a very tough topic, its good to see various opinions,

And the end of the day, we are really not going to know how many sharks there are, are the sharks just every where or is this another prime case of the "bath plug" effect where when fish stocks were up the displacement of fish was vast and widespread in various areas, now that the fish stocks are low and only come to a handful of spots each year and food is an issue, the sharks that we do have left are living where the food stock is high, and by this I mean where we fish as anglers on all the hotspots.
And because they are such intelligent creatures they have learnt where to get a free meal most days and most nights through our angling spots or if they follow the Kob or Geelbek, us on the other had we are slow learners, we pursist and keep fishing those spots and we keep donate our catches to them, can you blame them for evolving?? Can you blame the hundreds of homeless people that flock to the durban beachfront when they are handing out free meals, the answer is NO.
If the shark population was SO high and out of control then WHY are we NOT catching huge numbers off the beaches?? Actually our catches R&S have decreased in the passed year, why??,, McDonalds deep off Durban has a special on Geelbek, the sharks dont have to go hunt for food, why go to the river mouth and actually use that energy to hunt a Grunter on the right tide and the right time of the day/night, when you can stay around a shoal of Bek and you will get it served to you on a platter.

I fish off the boat often, and there is nothing I hate more than to lose a fish to the sharks, but at the end of the day, I believe that we, us as humans and our raping of the oceans fish stocks have put that shark in a position that he now has to congrigate and fight for his meals.

Yes sharks are a pain, we all know that, we can research and research as much as we want, about depths etc, the fact of the matter is, is that these sharks are evolving and i'm sorry to say that in my opinion, the only way to change this would be to stop offshore for a portion of the year and definately stop night fishing.

That is not a dig at anyone, thats in my opinion and a harsh reality......The shark has been around for millions of year, he is clever creature, never mistake him for being a dumbdumb!!

CASTSA well said and thought out and facts as you said. There is some other factors at play and one that hassles me more than a johnny itself is the highlighted part above. I fished the early 80's and on, and can remember how strong the rivers flowed and how the mouths were full up with bait. Shad coming into the estuary at St Lucia during first light etc. Now these mouths are closed all the way down our coast, this is partly a cause for the migration away from the inshore areas.

thanks for your contribution.

[CASTSA]

100% Tunaman, you are absolutely spot on....

These fish are now seeking alternate food sources from where ever they can,

Whats still amazing, because these fish are all animals to habit, you will find every year even if the river are closed that you will have a few fish come back to those closed mouth to look for food. EVEN if the mouth is closed and has been for a entire year, just out of habit.

Look at St Lucia, if that systems stays closed you will still have spottings of Zambezis roaming the shorebreak searching for Grunter, Mullet and Kob, its habit, but take away that food source, and these incredibly intelligent creatures will evolve and make another plan.....like i believe they are doing now!....

With the fish stocks low, either through poor management or failing river systems, these apex predators have to find food somewhere,