ULTIMATE ANGLING - the Ultimate SA Fishing website
General Angling Topics => Saltwater Lure Angling => Topic started by: jaenswart on January 01, 2012, 05:55:08 PM
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ok, I'm looking at getting myself a rod and reel for spinning off the boat (my current spinning setups are Sedona 4000's with Trevala medium light rods and are a tad light ).
So I'm looking at a size 6000 to 8000 reel paired with a decent rod.....but..
That got me thinking, if I could buy a combo that would also double up as a spinning outfit from the beach that would be great.
So what do you guys recommend.
I have looked at the following reels so far...Saragosa 8000, Stradic Fi 8000, Stradic Fj 6000, Penn Sargus 5000.
Rods I have looked at. Berkley air 9, Exceller 9, aerocast 9 ($$$ eina).
So please your opinions..I want to go get a leerie in the garden route in 2 weeks time :-)
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9 ft rods will be a little short to get you decent casting distance for Garrick from the shore... unless you're fishing off ledges or deep water points?
I saw the guys fishing the new Berkley Air 10ft off Mafia Island... targetting GT's on the ASFN show. Can't go wrong with the Air in my opinion. Reels... eish, many good reels out there, but reckon an 8000 size will be overkill on a 10 ft rod? (For shore spinning, I use the Stella 6000 with a Poseidon 12ft Ultra light HMG - need that extra distance from the shore.)
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9 ft rods will be a little short to get you decent casting distance for Garrick from the shore... unless you're fishing off ledges or deep water points?
I saw the guys fishing the new Berkley Air 10ft off Mafia Island... targetting GT's on the ASFN show. Can't go wrong with the Air in my opinion. Reels... eish, many good reels out there, but reckon an 8000 size will be overkill on a 10 ft rod? (For shore spinning, I use the Stella 6000 with a Poseidon 12ft Ultra light HMG - need that extra distance from the shore.)
Reefs,
Do you rate the stradic FJ? It's the new white one. I think they are awesome.
Maybe i should get 1 reel but get get 2 rods, one for the boat and 1 for shore.
I can get the Stradic Fj 5000 for R1600 as is the price for the Stradic 8000 Fi (the 8000 on this reel is actually exactly same size as the 6000, just deeper spool).
The Stella is about R6000 ..eina
I cna get a Trevala medium spinng for R700 buck so that is not a prob.
So you reckon I should then look for something along the 10 foot mark? or longer like yours? Does the air come longer than 10?
also what do you think about the exceller rods? I want decent fuji guides whatever I take in the end.
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Jaen , on the reel side take a look at the Penn Battle , seems like it could do the job as a dual purpose reel for the boat and for spinning in the surf sizes range from the 1000 right up to the 8000. heres a pic courtesy of Penn Reels.
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Jaen , on the reel side take a look at the Penn Battle , seems like it could do the job as a dual purpose reel for the boat and for spinning in the surf sizes range from the 1000 right up to the 8000. heres a pic courtesy of Penn Reels.
Hey Mike, thanks.
I did look at them and FA also recommended it. It's one up from the Sargus. Holding it in my hand it was actually markebly bigger than the Shimanos. As in a 4000 Battle is the size of a 8000 stradic.
One shop who sells them also told me the he had a lot of comebacks and that you "battle" with the reel. If all this was salestalk...it could be because I was holding a stella at the time when I asked him :-)
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Hi Jean
As far as my knowladge goes you will not get a rod that you wil use on the boat and on the beach and work 100%.
On the boat you will need shorter rods as you allready know and the rods that you will need for shore angling will be to long for the boat as Reefman has allready sayd.
I use the same rod as you have for spinning on my ski but use it with a Sustain 5000 and I have the medium/heavy outfit with a Saragosa 8000 that I use for jigging and heavier spinning.
I would not use the Saragosa for spinning but would rather go for a Stradic or the Sustain. Phone Barry at Bassil Manning they have had or still have a huge special going on the Shimano reels.
The spinning rod for the beach must really not be shorter then 9/10 foot. I got my self a Shimano Lesath 10 foot and a Stella 5000. Speak to Barry again they have them in combo sets and are not priced badly at all. Here I would rather use the 5000 and not the 8000 series. A nother important thing to look at will be the braid. Dont skimp on this and look around for something that will work, your braid is very important when spinning.
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Hi Jean
As far as my knowladge goes you will not get a rod that you wil use on the boat and on the beach and work 100%.
On the boat you will need shorter rods as you allready know and the rods that you will need for shore angling will be to long for the boat as Reefman has allready sayd.
I use the same rod as you have for spinning on my ski but use it with a Sustain 5000 and I have the medium/heavy outfit with a Saragosa 8000 that I use for jigging and heavier spinning.
I would not use the Saragosa for spinning but would rather go for a Stradic or the Sustain. Phone Barry at Bassil Manning they have had or still have a huge special going on the Shimano reels.
The spinning rod for the beach must really not be shorter then 9/10 foot. I got my self a Shimano Lesath 10 foot and a Stella 5000. Speak to Barry again they have them in combo sets and are not priced badly at all. Here I would rather use the 5000 and not the 8000 series. A nother important thing to look at will be the braid. Dont skimp on this and look around for something that will work, your braid is very important when spinning.
Thanks F,
Will give them a call.
What braid would you recommend. I can get PowerPro for around R400
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I would rather spend a bit more and go for the Jigman. I used this on a 12' spinning rod and Ultegra 5500, I even used it for edeble fishing.
On my ski I also use the Jigman and on my spinning outfit for the shore I use Nano from Berkley. Just take note that the Nano is a hasle to tie and make knots with, but once you got this right you will be smiling. It casts like a dream. The only reason I dont use it it on the ski is because of the extra care you should take with the knots.
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I would rather spend a bit more and go for the Jigman. I used this on a 12' spinning rod and Ultegra 5500, I even used it for edeble fishing.
On my ski I also use the Jigman and on my spinning outfit for the shore I use Nano from Berkley. Just take note that the Nano is a hasle to tie and make knots with, but once you got this right you will be smiling. It casts like a dream. The only reason I dont use it it on the ski is because of the extra care you should take with the knots.
As far as I know the nanofil only comes in 6lb, 8lb and 12lb.
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Yes, you're right, the Nanofil rated 12lb, but breaks at 25lb. (They actually sell it as 30lb braid - ask Fritz!)
Your other option for braid is the HMP stuff from Gremlins. They were supposed to bring out a Casting braid last year, not sure if they did. Phone Rob or Brendan at Gremlins.
Another good option for braid is the Suffix 832 Superline. Lots of pro's using it now. Reasonably priced as well.
The Stradic FJ looks like an awesome reel... thinking of getting one myself! But have a look at the Sustain FG as well...
(Saragossa's ratio is too low for spinning)
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I had a look at the Suffix 832 and agree it looks great and I was very interested in when looking at them. But I ended up taking Jigman because it was much thinner.
Tony is right, the Nano's thickest line is the 12bl but I promise it does break at 25bl, I tested the stuff.
Remember that the thinner the line the better your casting distance is going to be. And when you get braid for casting you must look at suple thin line. The Jigman you get two types one that is going to cost about R600 and the other one is about R1600. It is thinner but for the price difs you better of getting the cheaper one. I use it and I am very happy.
At the end of the day you the one that has to use it and you might find that the other braids are good for you. I am only talking out of experiance and am telling you what I have delt with and am very sure Tony is in the same boat and none of us are getting any kick backs of this.
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Yes, you're right, the Nanofil rated 12lb, but breaks at 25lb. (They actually sell it as 30lb braid - ask Fritz!)
Your other option for braid is the HMP stuff from Gremlins. They were supposed to bring out a Casting braid last year, not sure if they did. Phone Rob or Brendan at Gremlins.
Another good option for braid is the Suffix 832 Superline. Lots of pro's using it now. Reasonably priced as well.
The Stradic FJ looks like an awesome reel... thinking of getting one myself! But have a look at the Sustain FG as well...
(Saragossa's ratio is too low for spinning)
Thanks for all the feedback guys...would you then say the nanofil 12lb (breaking at over double that..??? crazy from Berkley) is adequate for spinning?
Also what do you guys put on your fingers not to get cut by braid...please NO bionic thingamajics
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Yes, you're right, the Nanofil rated 12lb, but breaks at 25lb. (They actually sell it as 30lb braid - ask Fritz!)
Your other option for braid is the HMP stuff from Gremlins. They were supposed to bring out a Casting braid last year, not sure if they did. Phone Rob or Brendan at Gremlins.
Another good option for braid is the Suffix 832 Superline. Lots of pro's using it now. Reasonably priced as well.
The Stradic FJ looks like an awesome reel... thinking of getting one myself! But have a look at the Sustain FG as well...
(Saragossa's ratio is too low for spinning)
Thanks for all the feedback guys...would you then say the nanofil 12lb (breaking at over double that..??? crazy from Berkley) is adequate for spinning?
Also what do you guys put on your fingers not to get cut by braid...please NO bionic thingamajics
It's certainly adequate for spinning, but...!! But...
- VERY tricky with knots... search for Nanofil - Fritz and I discussed it somewhere...
- It's kinda irritating thing I found with it... It comes in 300 yard spools... put it onto my Stella 6000 and found the spool only 3/4 full!!! Aaaarrrrggghhhhh swr <: Had to take it all off, guess how much other braid backing to put on and then re-spool!!
So whatever you buy (personally I would give the Sufix a bash - Tommo is using it extensively now) make sure you know the line diameter, then check the reel's spool capacity (tricky... 'cos most rate their capacity for mono "test" lb) - make sure you have enough new line to fill the spool, 'cos it's flippin irritating to find out you're short!
I use a few things when casting with braid:
Use a 4m Fluoro leader, so you're casting off mono... not always possible nowdays with the tiny guides that they make rods with... swr
If you want to keep the Braid leader knot outside the guides (use a 1m leader) - then I use either a proper Popping/Jigging glove (Owner), or... Surecatch sell these small little leather protectors that fit over your casting finger with an elastic strap - cheap cheap and work very well.
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That is not so nice. And I suppose for spinning you don't want a 3/4 spool, you want it full to aid casting
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Nice thing about the new Stradics and Sustains... they have a proper braid friendly spool lip... angled away to allow smooth braid casting... very nice! That White Stradic just looks so cool! They used to make a white Stradic about 6 or 7 years ago, then stopped... now I see it's back again... very tempting!
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Nice thing about the new Stradics and Sustains... they have a proper braid friendly spool lip... angled away to allow smooth braid casting... very nice! That White Stradic just looks so cool! They used to make a white Stradic about 6 or 7 years ago, then stopped... now I see it's back again... very tempting!
oh and you will love that x-ship feature...the new stella FE's also comes with it. It's like power steering on your handle. Does not matter how much load on the reel, the handle stays easy to turn. It's unbelievable
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Nice thing about the new Stradics and Sustains... they have a proper braid friendly spool lip... angled away to allow smooth braid casting... very nice! That White Stradic just looks so cool! They used to make a white Stradic about 6 or 7 years ago, then stopped... now I see it's back again... very tempting!
oh and you will love that x-ship feature...the new stella FE's also comes with it. It look power steering on your handle. Does not matter how much load on the reel, the handle stays easy to turn. It's unbelievable
Ok... sold... :rotfl
BTW... here's a pic of that Finger Protector thingiemajig...
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If you going to use a 5000 series reel then the 300yeard spools fit 100%. If you going to use a bigger reel then you going to put some backing on, either some HMP or get some normal nylon. You will really not need anything more then a 5000 reel. I got a Sustain from Bassil for 1400 about 3 weeks ago and the money that I saved I used for the braid.
Casting with thin braid like this you dont have to worry about finger protection, but if you really need then use some inculation tape, but only on the first segmant of your finger. Dont put the line in the fold of your finger because it kind of retards the cast. One thing you must never forget is to keep the drag on nice and tight so that when you cast that the line does not slip thru your finger, this will cut thru anything and then your fishing has gone belly up for the rest of the trip.
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If you going to use a 5000 series reel then the 300yeard spools fit 100%. If you going to use a bigger reel then you going to put some backing on, either some HMP or get some normal nylon. You will really not need anything more then a 5000 reel. I got a Sustain from Bassil for 1400 about 3 weeks ago and the money that I saved I used for the braid.
Casting with thin braid like this you dont have to worry about finger protection, but if you really need then use some inculation tape, but only on the first segmant of your finger. Dont put the line in the fold of your finger because it kind of retards the cast. One thing you must never forget is to keep the drag on nice and tight so that when you cast that the line does not slip thru your finger, this will cut thru anything and then your fishing has gone belly up for the rest of the trip.
Thanks F, those sustains are around R2800 up here. The 6000 is R3400 but with discount it comes down to R2500.
Wonder how BM can do that price. would love a sustain
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The reel Fritz bought must have been the older FE model which retails for about R2000. The reason he got it so cheaply, is because the new model reels should be arriving soon. R1400 even on the older model is still a flippin awesome price!
The older Sustain is the Gold spool one...
The newer model, the FG, which looks like this pic below, retails for R3500-R4000 excluding discounts. The newer model includes the new X-ship technology.
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The reel Fritz bought must have been the older FE model which retails for about R2000. The reason he got it so cheaply, is because the new model reels should be arriving soon. R1400 even on the older model is still a flippin awesome price!
The older Sustain is the Gold spool one...
The newer model, the FG, which looks like this pic below, retails for R3500-R4000 excluding discounts. The newer model includes the new X-ship technology.
yummy...seems that x-ship is such a big feature that Shimano are upgrading the stella, sustain and stradic with the technology.
I must say I think that new sustain will also be a great reel.
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The Sustain is an awesome reel already Jaen! With the upgrades, the mind boggles... The Sustain FG has 8 bearings plus 1 Anti-reverse, a 6.2:1 gear ratio.
The Stradic FJ has 5 bearings plus 1. With a gear ratio of 6.0:1
Whether that justifies an almost double the price tag... :dunno: ?
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see the kick stand on the sustain
(http://www.tackletour.com/images11/picticast2011shimstradsustain106.jpg)
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Ya I saw that! Got some clever boykies at Shimano these days! Excellent feature.
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The Sustain is an awesome reel already Jaen! With the upgrades, the mind boggles... The Sustain FG has 8 bearings plus 1 Anti-reverse, a 6.2:1 gear ratio.
The Stradic FJ has 5 bearings plus 1. With a gear ratio of 6.0:1
Whether that justifies an almost double the price tag... :dunno: ?
It's tru, sometimes I think Shimano's biggest issue is not designing great reels, it's actually deciding what to "leave out".
They seem adamant to have 20 models on the market, some so close to each other that I cannot believe it justifies the extra production lines in their factories.
I mean, let's say for instance they only made 3 grinder models, a top of the line , a mid range and an entry level. That is only 3 production lines, which will drive costs down.
Make sense for us, the fisherman, but obviously not for a company wanting to make money.
Because let's face it...the actual component are not what is driving the price on the top end models...It's buzzwords and make believe, acronyms that sounds impressive.
If they only had 3 models, with a stella that was much less expensive, everybody would buy stellas...they would last forever and shimano would go broke :-)
Hope you get what I'm trying to say :-)
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Ya know what you mean! And we haven't even mentioned the TwinPower!
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The Sustain is an awesome reel already Jaen! With the upgrades, the mind boggles... The Sustain FG has 8 bearings plus 1 Anti-reverse, a 6.2:1 gear ratio.
The Stradic FJ has 5 bearings plus 1. With a gear ratio of 6.0:1
Whether that justifies an almost double the price tag... :dunno: ?
The new Stadic's gear ratio is to slow in the bigger models. 4.8:1
http://www.shimano.com/publish/content/global_fish/en/us/index/products/reels/spinning/Stradic_FI.html (http://www.shimano.com/publish/content/global_fish/en/us/index/products/reels/spinning/Stradic_FI.html)
That is the reason I want to upgrade the Seagate. It becomes a mission to keep a chiselnose on top with a gear ratio less than 6.0:1.
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I think the retrieve ratios are a funny thing. It will depend on the spool size as to how much line is retrieved. For instance let's take the toriums. The 30 size is a 6:2:1 or something and the 50 is a 4: 2:1 now one would assume that the 50 retrieves less line per crank than the 30? Wrong!
The 30 has a smaller spool diameter so for every turn of that spool you pick up less line than the 50. Perhaps the same holds true for the bigger spinning reels. What is the line retrieval per crank?
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I would assume the spool size(diameter) for the 5000 sustain and stradic is about the same?
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Sorry thought you were comparing the small stradics to the bigger ones duh
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Sorry thought you were comparing the small stradics to the bigger ones duh
:lolo: No worries mate.
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The Sustain is an awesome reel already Jaen! With the upgrades, the mind boggles... The Sustain FG has 8 bearings plus 1 Anti-reverse, a 6.2:1 gear ratio.
The Stradic FJ has 5 bearings plus 1. With a gear ratio of 6.0:1
Whether that justifies an almost double the price tag... :dunno: ?
The new Stadic's gear ratio is to slow in the bigger models. 4.8:1
http://www.shimano.com/publish/content/global_fish/en/us/index/products/reels/spinning/Stradic_FI.html (http://www.shimano.com/publish/content/global_fish/en/us/index/products/reels/spinning/Stradic_FI.html)
That is the reason I want to upgrade the Seagate. It becomes a mission to keep a chiselnose on top with a gear ratio less than 6.0:1.
Think the 4.8 ratio is a typo. Can't be that slow??!? The Shimano AUS site specs the Stradic 5000 and 6000 at 5.8:1
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I have the Berkley air 10 footer with a Shimano Sustain 8000Fe, and also a Berkley Air 9 footer with a Shaimano Sustain 5000FB. Of the two, I prefer using the 9 footer, but both are fantastic to use. If you are going to be at the next social, let me know, and I will bring them along (when is the next social....by the way)
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Think the 4.8 ratio is a typo. Can't be that slow??!? The Shimano AUS site specs the Stradic 5000 and 6000 at 5.8:1
I will investigate.
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:dunno: All American websites states the gear ratio as 4.8:1 and all the Aussie sites got it as 5.8:1. I guess we need to phone Rapala VMC. Their website is not updated yet with the Stradic FJ specs.
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:dunno: All American websites states the gear ratio as 4.8:1 and all the Aussie sites got it as 5.8:1. I guess we need to phone Rapala VMC. Their website is not updated yet with the Stradic FJ specs.
There is NO way it's that slow...not even the Saragosa is that slow
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That is good to know.
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Ok, so in the end I went with a Shimano stradic FJ 5000, Shimano aerocast 30XH and berkley nanofil 12lb.
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BTW, Regarding the nanofil:
Myself and Charles Steward tested it dry and wet and the 12lb broke between 13lb and 15lb consistantly....but it did break on the knot.
Speaking of knots, there is just absolutely NO forgiveness. They slip slip slip slip.
I'm yet to find a knot and has been going for 1 hour. Forget those they recommend..they slip
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Have a look at Bassil Mannings website and look for Barriys blog. He has a video their on how to do it.
Awsome setup you got their by the way. I am sur you will have many happy moments with her.
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Have a look at Bassil Mannings website and look for Barriys blog. He has a video their on how to do it.
Awsome setup you got their by the way. I am sur you will have many happy moments with her.
Barry uses a neat trick..UV knotsense..plus 2 half hitched plus stopper knot after the allbright...jeez
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Nice setup Jaen .. :win: .