ULTIMATE ANGLING - the Ultimate SA Fishing website
OFFSHORE ANGLING => General Offshore Angling Discussion => Topic started by: sea sick on May 26, 2011, 01:19:32 PM
-
Guys, can we get this tread going
one thing getting to beyond the breakers, the question then.
what now, what do i do, where do i do it.
if we can forget about way points for now.
1. so beyond the breakers, you do need " live bait" etc. where do you go search for them.
2 is it better going for live bait? or can one use sardines?
3 which live bait to get
thanks
ss
-
This is a big topic. Lets rather be more specific.. Where are you going? Time of year and then lets look at a facet and perhaps some specific species.
-
Hi Bennie
it's about getting started
obviously, i would do more north coast, anything from durbs to cape vidal. but vidal would most probably be the no 1 spot.
it's not about catching bottoms. its more about game fish, snoek, cuda, dorado etc.
a salmon or two later on should be fine.
but first things first.
the ocean is a vast span of water.
it's one thing finding shad on the shoreline.
so where do you look for them "shad, makriel, maasbankers" etc.
don't think we need to go directly into the deep stuff.
ss
-
Honestly from my short experience.....................Waypoints are #1 with out these you will battle to get live bait & fish the right areas.
-
Prego
well the tread is for starters.
i do know jack s*** about off shore
so, please lets get it going..
ss
-
Well this is going to be a loooong thread. You see, even if you don't have live bait, you can still fish.
With no experience, the best is to invest in some small rapalas and pull them at 5 knots. You will pick up fish on them, but meanwhile keep an eye permanently on the sounder to find structure. Once you find structure, you can check for live baits. But I would pull small lures and scout the area.
-
I'm not an expert, but here it goes
I catch shad quite easily trolling small rapalas 50m - 100m behind the backline on my kayak in Durban. I take it you have a boat, so having one engine just in gear will probably get you to kayak speed (I'm just assuming that is the right speed) to catch shad (and from very recent experience, silkies, which I hear is good couta bait)
benniejordaan gave good advice. It's a good way of finding structure while being productive. Bait fish usually form "clouds" on a fish finder. Stop the boat, reel in your rapalas and drop down a bait jig trace (sabiki/yozuri/mustad bait traces) on the bottom with 4oz sinker or so and see if you can catch the bait fish. You can enhance your success rate by putting small bits of bait on the hooks of the jig trace. when you buy the bait trace, choose a hook size of around no.4 - no.6 so you don't cause too much damage to the bait fish
Yes you can use plain sardines. Put them on a bait-o-matic trace (or similar trace) and troll them at a slow speed for stuff like couta
If you want to use rapalas/halcos, get a few ranging in size from the tiny 7cm ones to the bigger 20cm ones. Good colours are the red head/white body (my favourite colour), sardine colour, black on top/white on bottom, orange striped/white body (a.k.a white death for some anglers). There really is a whole range of them and you need to experiement and see what works for you. Don't pass up the red head/white body colour just because it looks nothing like a fish. It is a deadly colour for a wide range of fish species, and I'm sure a lot of the other members will agree. You don't need to troll rapalas fast. Two engines in gear works fine. If you want to troll faster then rather use stuff like konas
Konas.... I haven't spent enough time on konas to tell you what colour/size works for what, so it's best I leave the more detailed versions to the true experts here, but a good colour my dad and I have had success on is purple/black combo skirt or pink/blue combo
Like I said I'm not an expert, I'm just sharing what has worked for my dad and I
Hope this helps
Enjoy the offshore adventure!
-
My advice is short and sweet.
Start by learning to fish with strip baits which you can basically use anywhere, and then also troll small feathers and Rapalas.
Start with 2 rods on you rig and then work from there.
-
My advice would be to join a club first and fish some inter club comps. Learning from someone is much easier than trying to figure it out yourself
-
Hi SS I can see you're getting worked up about your fist solo deep sea expeditions :geet
I would say you first plan of attack should be Rapalas my personal preference is the X-raps but all of them are good and they are not limited to any species or time of year you pick up whatever is in the area Wahoo, couta, tuna, snoek the lot. Always have a spinning rod at hand for when you see surface action, spoons would be my weapon of choice here they cast a mile are cheap, versatile and everything eats them.
when it comes to baits drifting and slow trolling are the way to go I'm not to sure how you craft will react on a drift it may spin so you might have to stay under power. set out you couta traces and look for all the skiboats thats where you should be fishing.
If you would like waypoints for Vidal & St. Lucia give Rory or me a shout and we will sort you out with the main ones Which are pretty much common knowledge like Oscars ect.
-
Being a potential lengthy issue my advice would be: try to get a ride on someone's boat for a few fishing sessions... nothing like practical experience.... or attended the FA's fishing college.... if none of the above is applicable, read x2 all the Billfish + Offshore sections here on UA!!!!!
-
Definately get some Rapala lures. As Cam said, they are versatile when it comes to targeting a variety of species. Stick to the basics. Red head, Mackerel, sardine colours. Rather go for Rapalas because in my opinion they track better than any other lure on the market and need much less adjusting to swim right. even the Demon lures require slower trolling speed where Rapalas will allow you to move pretty quickly. Nothing wrong with a surface lure too, maybe get a 6pc lure kit from me.
Use 1m of no.4 wire on your rappies just in case the couta start snapping at it. Tie the wire to a no.5 5 power swivel and onto your leader. You will catch everything from couta to tuna to Sailfish.
I also agree with cam, a spinning rod with some bullet spoons is essential!
-
What I would do this time of the year with some bigger snoek around,,,, first pull some rappies while it still bit dark at a fast speed... Then later on in the morning I will pull strip bait....Also agree try and go with someone to get the feel and see how it done,,,,if you ever in Durbs let me know, can take you out and show you how I trawl for snoek....
-
Thanks guys
this tread is going well.
i have read somewhere, that when trolling it should not be across from the shore line
your views.
do you troll up current and down current, or how do you guys do it?
ss
-
Since you have said you know how Jack likes to shyte, I think you should start at the beginning.
Safety on your boat is more important than knowing how to catch fish
I take it you already have all the safety gear on board?
That's where I would start first.
Keep the deck clear of all hooks and discarded traces. A collapsible bucket works well as a place to store all your traces and hooks that have been replaced.
A treble in your foot is a sure fire way of ending the trip early.
....Stupid Hurts!
Another point to remember is that if fishing areas where you will be surf launching, you will need to know what the water , waves, sand-banks , shore-break is like at a particular time of the tide or day. doesn't help not knowing where the hazards are in the area where you fish or where the "bowls" are in an area and where the waves like to stand up.
Having a general idea what to expect in the surf zone on your return is an added advantage as this is where things go wrong very quickly.
Pro-active is better than re-active.
Spend a bit of time getting to know the area that you are fishing.
Since you are not intending going too deep and want to start off targeting Snoek and Shad behind back line I would say that one of your most important lessons that you need to instill and make a habit is that as the skipper of the boat (I presume) you are the one who has to keep both eyes on the water at all times.
Nothing like the split second it takes for a wave to stand up on you while you are watching your crew member fight a fish.
As the owner and/or skipper of a boat, fishing now becomes a responsibility not just fun.
-
What I would do this time of the year with some bigger snoek around,,,, first pull some rappies while it still bit dark at a fast speed... Then later on in the morning I will pull strip bait....Also agree try and go with someone to get the feel and see how it done,,,,if you ever in Durbs let me know, can take you out and show you how I trawl for snoek....
Pick me pick me!
-
SS you have started a very good topic, well done, I have found that all the guys on this forum are very keen to share there knowledge. There are a number of topics already relating to targeting a number of different species, however I would suggest going out with someone in the area a few times to see what is cooking especially the launch.If you have your own rig find someone with knowledge of the area who would be prepared to crew for you a few times I am sure there is someone out there who would oblidge.Its a fantastic sport and I am learning every time I launch.When you go to the club speak to the locals they will be more than willing to assist. Remember as TS said safety first. :tite
-
Thanks guys
this tread is going well.
i have read somewhere, that when trolling it should not be across from the shore line
your views.
do you troll up current and down current, or how do you guys do it?
ss
Best bet is just to get out there and do it get the feel and then ask questions. Also there is plenty material on this site so start reading.
-
eric,
Thanks will keep you in mind.
Fa,
I have read your articals.
And other aricals.
Okay, so i wanba pull some x-raps etc. How hard should the drag be set on the reel?
And, how much, do you give the fish, before making vass?
Ss
-
X-raps can be trolled at a variety of speeds from slow to mighty fast that's why I like them so much don't concentrate to much on what speed you're doing rather keep an eye on your rod tip it should have a good vibration going then you know you're in business.
When it comes to your drag you will soon see that because of their big lip x-raps put a lot of pressure on the drag so you'll have to tighten it fairly vas, you don't want to lock the drag up but obviously you can't have the lure pulling line off the reel all the time so you're aim for just tight enough to keep everything in place.
-
hey cam
When are you guys going down again?
Mine arse is itching............
Thanks for the input
Ss
-
We're hoping to get down during the public holiday next month for a few days at Vidal looking at chasing a few Sailfish :sailf: I just need to add a few layers to the brown ring round my neck to get some leave as I'm pretty much in negative credits at the moment from all the fishing trips this year.
-
but vidal would most probably be the no 1 spot.
Vidal is easy. get behind the breaker. drive to 16m water and put out your dead sardines. That's all you need to do. you don't need waypoints to be succesful
-
cam
Looking at st lucia from the 1-10 of july.
Dont know if everything would be sorted by then.
Lets hope so.
Jean
I have seen many boats at vidal, just off the point.
Are they drifting sardine there to catch cuda?
Ss
-
cam
Looking at st lucia from the 1-10 of july.
Dont know if everything would be sorted by then.
Lets hope so.
Jean
I have seen many boats at vidal, just off the point.
Are they drifting sardine there to catch cuda?
Ss
yebo
-
yebo
Hey Jaen, how come you and your boet never fish together??
-
guys,
Do you troll up current and down current?
Ss
-
guys,
Do you troll up current and down current?
Ss
The important thing is to not troll into or with the swell but rather at and angle to it. So work a zig zag pattern.
-
Hey Jaen, how come you and your boet never fish together??
We do, occasionally. But he is a lot more into the billfish and I like the gamefish. But we had a chat the other day and thinking of fishing together a bit more now since I have a proper boat
-
guys
when trolling, should your rods stand upright or as low down as possible?
ss
-
I like to get mine as low as possible
-
It depends on the lures and the conditions... some lures "like" a small angle of entry = low rod... for others you need to put your rod up (or use outriggers) to get you lures to be a bit more aggressive... you have to feel it and adjust according to the conditions at hand...
-
so, if i was to troll 2 x-raps, i might start off with 1 rod low and the other1 high.
Ss
-
If you are trolling x-raps (which are deep divers and put a lot of pressure on the rod), and if you have 25-30 lb setups I would suggest you run both rods low... just put one lure 5-8 m ahead of the other....
-
john,
I have two shimano talevera rods 6,6, 20-50 pound.
Two grandwave40 reels filled with kfga 0.40, think 25pound.
So they should do the trick, it's just getting the fish onn dad.
Ss
-
With that you can go either low/high it will depend on sea conditions....but x-raps usually troll true even in rough seas...
:tite
-
john,
When setting up a lure and it needs to be tweaked, to run true, what would you look for, to see that it needs adjustment, what would the adjustment be?
Ss
-
Some brands like Rapala (in my experience) are almost guaranteed that they will run true... not need for adjustments even after fighting a few dozens of fish...
Others, well they need some TLC.... you must get a set of good and strong pointed pliers... depending on the movement of the lure (left or right) you have to tweak the attaching wire on the lure towards the opposite side it is swimming.... do it less than 1 mm at a time... you don't want to over compensate... try again and adjust till it swims right...
I find that in some lures, going down on the leader (thinner leader) will also help... also if it gets to difficult (or even to take the lures deeper) use a sinker (like the one's for slow trolling/drifting for cuta) 1-1.5 m a head of the lure...
I'm an impatient man so if by the 3rd time the lure doesn't swim right it goes into the bucket... get a new one.... and I adjust them later... you don't want to loose time when the bite is hot!
-
guys
when trolling, should your rods stand upright or as low down as possible?
ss
Read my articles, it is all there.
Lipped lures like Rapala's etc, the rods should be low down
Feathers, Kona's the rods should stand high
http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php/topic,421.0.html (http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php/topic,421.0.html)
http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php/topic,1379.0.html (http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php/topic,1379.0.html)
http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php/topic,2959.0.html (http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php/topic,2959.0.html)
-
john,
Thanks
Fa,
I have read them, one needs to understand, when to do what.
New ball game.
I got some no 4 piano wire.
The stuff is thin.
You guys sure they won't be bitten through?
Ss
-
another aspect.
When bringing fish to the side, should the fish be exhausted, so that it lies on it's side?
Do gamefish lie still, after being boated, or do they act like shad?
Ss
-
john,
Thanks
Fa,
I have read them, one needs to understand, when to do what.
New ball game.
I got some no 4 piano wire.
The stuff is thin.
You guys sure they won't be bitten through?
Ss
I use no.5 on very small lures, no. 7 on most and no. 10 on the big ones
-
another aspect.
When bringing fish to the side, should the fish be exhausted, so that it lies on it's side?
Do gamefish lie still, after being boated, or do they act like shad?
Ss
No, get the fish to teh boat as quick as possible, especially if you intend to release, an exhausted fish is a dead fish.
Generally no they do not lie still, they go mad especially Dorado.
-
thanks mike,
I also know that dolphin like your catch, so giving too much time, you might donate it........
Guess i need to see, what will work and what will not, when boating a fish.
Mike 5nm out to sea, how deep is the water normaly?
As my boat would be a cat d.
Ss
-
thanks mike,
I also know that dolphin like your catch, so giving too much time, you might donate it........
Guess i need to see, what will work and what will not, when boating a fish.
Mike 5nm out to sea, how deep is the water normaly?
As my boat would be a cat d.
Ss
That will depend where you are fishing, in Durban you will be 30-40m, but at Vidal you will be in deep water.
Dolphin are the least of your worries, wait until you find out about what sharks do to your catch and there are some beasts out there
-
mike,
When using a 4 ounce sinker, to get the bait into deeper water, do one use bottle nose sinkers?
Ss
-
mike,
When using a 4 ounce sinker, to get the bait into deeper water, do one use bottle nose sinkers?
Ss
You can use any sinker from 1oz to 16 oz depending on what depth you want to acheive, I use 3 systems to do this.
1. The common method of using a bottle nose sinker 10m up the line tied with and elastic. Usually for the 1-6oz
2. Barrel sinkers running on the line, or I prefer to make them into trolling sinkers with a wire through, must be min 4m away.
3. Heavy trolling sinkers with cable running on a seprate rod and a release clip on them, then you clip this to you main line and drop both.
-
thanks for placeing the links, to your articals.
At the end of the day, this tread could be a all in one.
Ss
-
:fshn:
-
Emjay
thanks for posting the picture.
guys, please post some pictures of your beloved lures.
it's easier to "die kloutjie by die oor te sit", when seeing a pic with the lure name, then just a name.
ss
-
You can use any sinker from 1oz to 16 oz depending on what depth you want to acheive, I use 3 systems to do this.
1. The common method of using a bottle nose sinker 10m up the line tied with and elastic. Usually for the 1-6oz
2. Barrel sinkers running on the line, or I prefer to make them into trolling sinkers with a wire through, must be min 4m away.
3. Heavy trolling sinkers with cable running on a seprate rod and a release clip on them, then you clip this to you main line and drop both.
Mike, can you explain this as I am not following?
-
will the game fish not target the sinker, out of stupidness
ss
-
Mike, can you explain this as I am not following?
There are some pics of this here....
http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php/topic,839.0.html (http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php/topic,839.0.html)
-
Thanks Shag! Wasn't thinking but that clears it up...
-
There are some pics of this here....
http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php/topic,839.0.html (http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php/topic,839.0.html)
Exactly.
-
will the game fish not target the sinker, out of stupidness
ss
Possible, I have heard of guys painting them like lures and running assist hooks, but I do not do that, just have a long wore through so if they bite it is safe
-
thanks fa
-
SS i don't want to hijack the thread but I am going to win the price FA's price. I will invite you. :hehe:
-
Willie,
nelspruit, thats far from here "heidelberg", invite excepted.
we can then both learn a good deal more
ss
-
Willie,
nelspruit, thats far from here "heidelberg", invite excepted.
we can then both learn a good deal more
ss
I have never been on a boat offshore so you are selected as one of the friends if I do win that price.
-
@Seasick
Im not far from you, only like 20 minute drive, If you want to see my setups and tackle i can show you, also have plently of vidal points, i just about grew up there on a boat...
-
Awesome offer Bryant! Cred to you!
-
Bryant;
thanks for the offer. will keep in contact.
i have a rock and surf trip coming up, so it's between two minds...............
ss
-
Hi with summer coming along what is the best to use to catch Dorado ot YFT?
Thanks
-
Hey HD :welc: !
Best ways for Dorado would be trolling between 40-70m marks from Durban to Umhlanga using rapala or halco my favourite is using small kona's. You can get these in kits from Bennie from Demon tackle at a steal.
What most do off Durban is set up fads which the Dollys tend to congregate under and there you can just pin a few livies through the top lift a drift or slow troll through the area. You can also through lures such as popper, stick baits etc around the fads. Only down side with fads is the guys seem to put them out further & further each year. So statring make one up so that you can deploy your own one in a secret location of your own.
As for Tuna, why wait for summer they are around head over to the barge or Umhlanga Barge & Fonteo wreck & pin a few livies 2 on the surface & one or deep.
Hope this helps
:tite
-
Thank you very much. need the sea to settle then will head to barge and try
-
My pleasure,
Maybe give baiting/chumming a go, works off protea and I have been speaking to a friend from the cape about it, just have not had a chance to give it a go. Only difference we don't get rewarded with the 40-80kg beast but in teens off Durbs will suffice just fine.
-
my offer is still open will be in st lucia next month there is a spot for you to learn my bad habits