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General Angling Topics => Saltwater Lure Angling => Topic started by: gareth88 on July 03, 2017, 11:02:29 AM
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Hi Guys,
A spinning reel was recently spooled with new gosen x8 casting braid (really nice and smooth). On a spinning trip, a small wind knot, about the size of a figure 8 knot to a hook, somehow appeared about 80 m into the line. I thought that this would be a weak point and may break if I hooked into a decent fish.
My solution was to cut the knot out, tie a join in the braid and reverse it so that there would be about 200m before reaching the joined section (sounds like good logic). So I unspool the braid by roling it back onto an empty role of line. Then tried to roll it onto another empty role so that it would be backwards before respooling the reel.
Unfortunately, this process (probably through not being done under enough tension) cause many knots during each time the line was move from one to another and now means that in the +- 300m there are numerous joins where the line broke from trying to pull the knots out.
The question I have is whether this braid should just be thrown in the bin or if it will still do the trick (even with the irritating noice of knots casting through the eyes)?
Any feedback would be really appreciated.
P.s. if the braid needs to be thrown away then please suggest braid to replace that is good when it comes to wind knots and fairly affordable.
Thanks
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I've had to join braid once before without a problem but it is disconcerting to see it keep re-appearing during a fight.
But more importantly, rather undo your wind knots. It can be done, with a bit of patience and a good sharp hook point (and at my age, a pair of strong glasses).
Be careful that you are not overfilling your spool (leads to more wind knots) and also, with a strong side or head wind, don't try for max distance casts.
I've got my wind knots down to very occasional now, and I use Gosen on a lot of my spools.
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What reel are you using Gareth? You need to get to the bottom of the cause of the windknots first before you replace. Gosen is generally an excellent braid, so it's not the braid that's the problem. But braid that has been knotted several times in the top section is not a good idea. The friction of the knot through the guides will eventually cause it to break.
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Hi guys,
Thanks for the responses. I'm using a new stratic and the day that the wind knot occurred was very windy, which was possibly the reason. I've used the outfit about 10 times and it was the first problem I've had. The real issues came in when removing the braid and trying to respool, as I said above i think that was due to making the error of not having enough tension.
Looks like an expensive lesson and now looking for good affordable braid to replace with and the price of Gosen seems to have gone up and now seems a little out of budget.
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If you want cheaper braid but still good quality, try HMP. It's locally made but apparently quite decent. Load the braid only to about 1-2mm below the edge of the spool lip. Overfilled spools cause problems.
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Been using a Stradic 5000 with 17lb Gosen braid for many years now and I have never had a problem, I've turned the braid once.
Don't overfill and make sure your line lay is correct.
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Gareth, if I was you I'd reverse the braid on the reel for the time being. Put the knotted section closest to the spool, which will rarely come into use. You'll then have 200m of un-knotted braid on top.
If you're set on buying new braid, then go for the Sufix 832, it's really been bulletproof over the years. Just remember that Sufix 832 understates their breaking strain by 50%, so if you want 30lb braid, then go for 20lb.
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You can try adding a bit of Lip Ice or Vaseline to the knot before pulling apart. Often it will then just slip out.
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If you use Vaseline, just don't tell anyone else. You may need to explain why you had it on you in the first place w;k
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Been using gosen for a while now and had a wind knot once only and it was quite windy and i was trying to push the cast.
the only option for NO wind knots is nanofil.About the same price as gosen.
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Any line will do it with the wrong reel, line lay or guides..you can get all the parts of the equation right and not throw a knot for a hundred sessions and then when the fish are boiling in front of you, you'll still (or I have haha more than once) flip the bait arm in a lame manner, and it'll half close and lay your line all wrong and the next cast, just as you mate goes vas, will throw half your line off in one moerse knot..It's fishing..use all the advice you've been given and you'll figure it out.. We almost always spin with the wind blasting..last year I've had to learn to spin with a multiplier into the howling wind..now there's another story of frustrations, same as braid, just more often! I was tired of me with my beautiful shimano, and braid..and my mate easy outcasting me and out fishing me with .55 mono and a 10 foot ten year old rod..it is the caster, I get less wind knots now when fishing braid as my casting style has changed a bit..but the grinders not getting much action seeing as the leeries seem to be a thing of the past we haven't seen them for a year and we are a "basin for the stock"?!..anyway the other fishing off the boat or the rocky coast I fish or Xheavy spinning off the same rocky coast, mono is my new fun haha.. but that going off topic!
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Second that HMP..if you can get it, do..nice line, lasts long, casts nice, tight weave, good on the bank, breaks at weight as advertised I've found, 30lb is 30lb, 15lb is 15lb..so order accordingly if you order some of that. I've used 5 and 8 strand..tried fused lines, local stuff, cheap stuff, not so cheap stuff, 832 etc.. favourite being gosen and HMP. Don't like spiderwire, don't like gatorbraid..
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Thanks for all the feedback guys.
Do any of you know where (if anywhere) HMP is stocked in Cape Town?
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I'm sure you will find it somewhere, but failing that, you could order online from CDS Angling in Pretoria. I think Trophy Tackle in PE also handles online sales.
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Hi Reefman,
I've seen that you have some great tutorials on stitching braid. From what I've seen it appears like a loop is made to join a leader to. Would it be possible to stitch one piece of braid to another as a join without creating a loop? If possible I think it would be better that a double uni knot for example?
Would appreciate your thoughts and any advice
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Hi Reefman,
I've seen that you have some great tutorials on stitching braid. From what I've seen it appears like a loop is made to join a leader to. Would it be possible to stitch one piece of braid to another as a join without creating a loop? If possible I think it would be better that a double uni knot for example?
Would appreciate your thoughts and any advice
Absolutely possible. It's the way I join my backing braid to topshot braid. Stitching braid to braid is BY FAR the best possible method of joining braid to braid. 14 stitches either side and you're good to go.
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Best braid join you get stitch the one into the other and other into the one, and trim tags and leave as is, no knotting at all..I've yet to break one, really even the ones that were untidy, the thinner line always breaks first somewhere.. Tried to break them stuck to rocks and fish hundreds of times..Gave up on them for heavy gear (80lb+) with heavier braid leaders as it's near impossible to break when stuck on some redbait or to the bottom of the ocean, it is too strong for that, I badly injured my arm once trying to break off a snagged line with stitched 100lb+ braid leader. You need a fg knot to mono leader to be only just weaker than your mainline for that but almost as strong so you can pull as hard as you can but still break off at leader when you need to. For all other applications it is one major advantage braid has over mono IMO, the fact that you can join lines of quite different diameters at 100%, leaders or backing, and have it streamlined to not affect the cast at all, there is nothing like it for mono. But you aren't going to be doing it at the beach or on a rocking boat! You need a nice light and sharp needle and steady hand.
You get the hang of it after a few also, I flip up or down after every 2 stitches so I am always stitching in the same direction through the top and back through the bottom to the top, then flip. Alternate the direction of your flips so the line you are stitching does not get all twisted up. Your eye keys into the weave as well, just aim for the middle and you get the hang, you don't have to get too pedantic. I've even stitched lines that are partially fused like spiderwire, though that was my least favorite line, best to stitch was HMP, silky and smooth after much use, weave is easy to stitch and tight..I keep on punting that line, but it ticks all the boxes for me. It is just a quality product..Hope it doesn't change..
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Hi Visenvryheid,
Thanks for taking the time to share your views. Can I just ask for some clarity on what you mean by flip up and down after every two stitches?
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Yo, a picture is worth a thousand words...
Ok, just did one quickly as memory was a bit "hazy" to see exactly what I meant?! haha the stitches are so good that I don't have to do them often, they last the life of the line you are using. Ok...
It is much easier and quicker for me to find the split in the weave with the needle point when I push up against the line being stitched and stab the line from below in a perpendicular but upward direction while holding the line being stitched with my left thumb and forefinger. So I start from above to get a good start where I can see what I am doing clearly and then go through the line again, then I then spin the needle so the whole arrangment is upside down and repeat, and spin and repeat, just alternating direction of the spins so you don't twist the whole lot up..
I took photos of the stitch I made now so will upload later when I have chance..
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"Stitching braid to braid is BY FAR the best possible method of joining braid to braid."
Here is a photo tut..this is 8 strand 80lb joined to 8 strand 30lb, I used 20 half-stitches each side, 10 full stitches each side in total.
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More...
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More...
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More...When you pull a line and needle through the other line, which you must do twice after completing each series of stitches, turn the needle and double line 90 degrees to the stitches and it will go through easily.
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Then trim tags and don't knot them, if one pulls out at some stage so be it, it does not affect the knot, if the tag that has pulled through catches your rod eye, trim it again..Don't use in situations for braid leader where you will likely have to break off as you will break off your mainline where it has a nick or somewhere else before the stitch. The stitch is stronger than your line so take that into account.
Now please go fish and if that helped you, put the leeries/garrick back, there are so few we have forgotten what they look like in the southern cape! ;)
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:tkx: :win:
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From one ex wind knotter to another soon to be...
Gareth, I'm assuming you've seen the many posts on the causes on "wind" knots already. It's rare for me to get them these days but when I do I generally know the reasons for them. I've successfully managed to unpick really tight knots on 10lb Suffix, 15lb J braid and above using these two clips sharpened at the ends. The bent ends help to get a good grip while working. If you don't have a good pair of eyes like I do and even glasses don't help then opt for the magnifying glasses. On the thinner braids it helps to flatten the knot a bit with your thumb nail which makes the job a lot easier.
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Hey, Gareth!
Wind knots can be a bear to work out, and sometimes it's just a combination of factors such as wind (obvious, but often overlooked), line make, line "model", breaking strength, reel make & model, reel shims, rod type, eye spacing etc. I had the experience with two setups which gave two different results.
Both my laaitie and I fished with Assassin Sierra Heavy (Microwave guides) and Gosen 17lb braid. I was using a Shimano Sustain 5000, and he a Stradic 5000. In the two years we used these setups side-by-side, he never suffered one wind knot! I, on the other hand struggled constantly with wind knots (and eye wraps), despite taking all precautions such wetting the line constantly, and shimming the spool up.
I had eventually lost over 30m of braid to constant retying (some of the knots simply would not come out). So I spooled on the 25lb Gosen braid I had as spares, and - magic smagic - no more wind knots! Have not had a single wind knot on this combo... :ayb
Just goes to show - you never know what might be causing the problem!
Hope you get yours sorted!
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Then trim tags and don't knot them, if one pulls out at some stage so be it, it does not affect the knot, if the tag that has pulled through catches your rod eye, trim it again..Don't use in situations for braid leader where you will likely have to break off as you will break off your mainline where it has a nick or somewhere else before the stitch. The stitch is stronger than your line so take that into account.
Now please go fish and if that helped you, put the leeries/garrick back, there are so few we have forgotten what they look like in the southern cape! ;)
Vis!
I notice that your stitches are very close, and this gives a nice short splice! I've always stitched mine about 10mm apart, so the resulting full-length splice is about 25cm long. I'd prefer my splice shorter. Do you have any idea if there is a "standard"? Is a closer stitch superior to a looser one?
Thanks,
Mike