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FRESHWATER ANGLING => Fly fishing => Trout fishing => Topic started by: kevf on April 02, 2014, 10:57:57 AM
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We've recently bought a neighbouring farm and there's 3 dams on there (4.5ha ,2,8ha and 1.3ha) that I'd like to stock with trout. 20+ years ago they used to be great dams with some of the local ballies remembering 10lb fish coming out of them. The farm changed a hands a few times and bass ended up in there. There are no streams coming into the dam that would allow the trout to breed so I don't think there are any left in there, I've only ever caught bass in there! Question is how successful would the reintroduction of trout be? what's the optimum size stockie and can they live together or would either one outcompete the other? I don't mind if the bass get chowed out!
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ps: where can I get grass carp? im in underberg
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I always hate fishing dams with bass in them!!
They seem to just take over, horrible bloody things are so aggressive so im pretty sure natural food will be in very short supply for the trout.
Chat to Krissi here on the forum she is our resident trout guru as she owns a hatchery in your area.
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from my understanding once there are bass in a trout dam its pretty much tickets for the trout.
The bass will eat all the stockies that you put in, so maybe the only way of getting trout in is to stock them in a decent size, 1-2kg.
From experience its always sad to catch a bass in a trout dam, because you know in a few years that dam will no longer be a trout dam.
not sure how to rid you entire dam of bass, perhaps draining it completely and starting all over...
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Yeah from what I know, the only way to make the dam a successful trout fishing dam would be to regularly stock the dams with fish larger than 1kg, also implement a culling policy on the bass, the less bass in a trout dam, the better. Draining the dam could mess it up, especially if there are no inlets. Stocking Grass Carp wouldnt be a great idea in a trout dam either, yes they will control the weed, but they will take over and eat all the natural food the trout will need to survive. I have a contact in Pretoria where you can get Grass Carp from if you are keen.
I have fished a 5 hectare dam and the owner said there were between 7000 and 9000 trout in it.
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thanks guys, I have had a chat to krissi about it,
these bass(tards) have taken over some really nice trout dams, sounds like i'd be throwing good money after bad.
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Kev, why dont you look at netting and culling the bass? Or even translocating them to a bass dam?
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How about we all go fish them out and relocate them .. :hnthnt:
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I Like Mikes Idea :happ:
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guys would be welcome to fish them all out, but that'll never happen. i reckon they'd out survive cockroaches even. i think once they in a system there'd have to be some drastic, costly measures to remove them, time and money is something i don't have an abundance of these days.
dynamite anyone?????
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Just to let the guys in on what we discussed Kev - there are mixed opinions on stocking dams with bass.
1. Stock with 8" (or the largest you can afford) mid winter when the bass are dormant. This gives the trout time to adapt and grow until spring when the bass start getting active again.
2. Stock with smaller (5" - 6") early spring but at a higher stocking rate than recommended. The thought here is that there is a better food supply and the trout will grow quicker before the bass get too active - accept that you will lose some.
I personally recommended the mid winter stocking. In the hatchery the trout grow at around 1" per month and if the food supply was/is good, this trend continues in the dams (from seeing previous year stockies and catch records). However, a bass is a voracious feeder and I have heard of them taking over 12" fish, so I really :dunno: . Resident trout will also feed on new stockies, as will birds.
The stocking rates we used per ha of water surface: 5" and 6" @ 160; 7" @ 140; 8" and 9" @ 120 and 10" @100. A 5ha dam should adequately support 4000 fish at any one time but again, no 2 dams are the same - 1 may well support a larger number of fish and the other less than expected. One needs to take so many things into consideration, mortalities, food supply, weed, micro-climate, water source into the dam ... the list goes on and on. My recommendation was always based on how the previous year's stockies performed and what condition the fish are in that are being caught.
It is almost impossible to determine the survival rate of stockies - there are just too many variables, eg predation, food supply, thermal inclines, flooding, etc.
We no longer own the hatchery. I am also sure that there are guys out there who probably know a lot more than me who fish for trout or own trout dams.
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thanks krissi,
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I am more than happy to volunteer to help to determine the density of the bass!
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Just to throw another spanner into the works. :blush:
Both Bass and Trout are now classified as invasive alien species, and the stocking/trans-locating thereof supposedly requires endless permits and a whole load of cr@p.
Whether or not the supposed powers that be have the ability to enforce this is yet to be seen.
A way of eradicating the bass, and everything else living in the water is Rotenone them. However with no feeder streams, my guess it would take about 3 years before anything could once again live in the water.
Not knowing anything about trout and bass, my idea would be to sein net the dams, removing all bass and feeding them to the birds. Maybe 2 or 3 netting sessions would be required. ?
Thereafter "smuggle" in some BIG trout and let nature take it's course ???
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Herman, I believe by the 9th of April we will know the exact outcome of where Trout lie in this whole story...
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Gone ahead and put 400 of these 8Inch fellas into the dam, so will see what happens
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Nice one Kev - :hehe: I recognise that tank w;k
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Nice
lets see how those 8 do
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so 2 months after stocking the fish, a friend went and threw a line the other day and got 2 fish that looked to be about 12-13inches, really doing well!!! the fat one was out my neighbours dam, from the same stocking! :geet :geet
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I have some experience with this. Some idiot actually phoned me from the farm and told me he has put two nice bass in our big dam. We are still culling bass three years later on. I stock trout of not less than 1 kg in March - April. We put time in November to January late afternoons with big plastics to catch the bass. We remove them all and also ask the visitors to remove the bass if they get as bycatch on fly. It looks if we have them under control as we have not caught any small bass this season again. I have had that a brown trout of about 3,5 kg took a small bass while I was bringing the bass in. I pulled the bass out of its mouth and it actually jumped out of the water to take the bass again as I lifted it out of the water. Hope you can clean out on bass.
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ya Van the bass were a concern, I would have liked to stock the dam late autumn which is when we'll stock it next year. I think the % of the bass population that will be able to eat these trout will be fairly low and I hope the trout will prey on the bass fry.
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what a pearler of a morning, dam braai and a bass removal session today
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2 of the trout caught this weekend by guests in our dam which has bass and trout :-) The guest seems to think the first pic is a brown, but I have my doubts. The dam has been fishing well with guests catching both bass and trout so I am chuffed.
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got some bass and this chap that had a close shave with a cormorant or fish eagle. measured 14"
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starting him young
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as far a getting rid off bass(with out poison) the only way i know is to drain dam over winter let it bake in the sun then get some earth moving plant in remove 200mm from bottom of dam and then restart. But no Farmer is going to empty his irrigation dam water source.
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I had a few throws on sunday arvie, couldn't find my fly rod so just took my little bass rod an a spinner( sry to the purists). got a nice hen of 35cm, and very next cast this 45cm cock fish. gave me a huge rev - jumping all over the place. The cock had very dark colouration. I also had 4 or 5 on/offs so time to get the fly gear out again. Putting in another 200 8inch fish on Thursday, the first stocking have done so well and it seems to me that the bass population have taken a bit of a knock
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Nice fish Kev (clap)
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How about we all go fish them out and relocate them .. :hnthnt:
:corrct: :corrct: :corrct:
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Nice one
Still think the Bass need management
When can we arrange the Braai
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Very nice fish!
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another 200 9inch fish went in this morning :yipee:
Im looking to upgrade my fly gear, I have a pflueger 5 weight rod im still happy with, but my okuma 280 reel and the 20 year old line on it is very tired. any suggestions? I look the look of the explorer launch and its very well priced. what line should I get? any particular brand? maybe 2 reels with one floating and one sinking? will look at another rod for the second reel when i've got some more cash. I will mainly use it for still waters in Underberg
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What budget are you working with?
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no more than 1K for a reel loaded with line, Super_daav just sent me a few good looking options - he recommended a few things but the launch and Cortland 444 / snowbee XS plus line sounded good.
What backing do guys put on?
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and now intermediate vs sinking??? and what taper is best, or is that starting to split hairs?
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launch are awesome little reels. a reel in freshwater is mostly a line holder anyway, so dont break the bank. also look at the rio mainstream lines. not a bad option for what you pay for them. if you look around, you might get it at a decent price. let the shop put backing on for you. they charge per meter, and you dont have to buy a 100yard spool and waste. rather spend a bit more on your floating line, than the sinking. you tend to spend most of your time fishing the floater.
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get a sinking. most of our waters are shallow, and by fishing your floating line with different lengths tippet and sinking flies, you will cover anything that a intermediate will do. even the sinking line, depending on how long you let it sink, will cover the deeper parts and up.
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So I settled on the Launch, one with Rio mainstream floating and the other with intermediate, got a really good deal at the Sportfisher in PMB. Finished up work a bit late on Saturday so only had 20 mins or so to fish and got nothing. Went up around 10ish on sunday and went around on the boat, tried a few flies and still nothing. Saw a lot of action off the jetty so changed to a biggish DDD and a San Juan worm behind it and eventually got one of the stockies we had just put in, few casts later got a nice 47cm hen, both on the San Juan worm. Had a few other swirls and chases but that was it. Went back at around 4ish and the fish were everywhere, rises, porpoising but couldn't work out what they wanted to chow. Nice to get on the board though
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Awesome fish bru!
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Very nice fish there Kev (clap)
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Quick half an hour session after dairy last night, got 2 37cm fish on a orange woolly bugger, fast retrieve and saw them come charging across an hit the fly, missed a few others as well
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Had some friends fishing this morning so I went passed to see how they where doing and had a few throws with one of their rods, picked up 2 in 10 mins. Taking a few green bottles now and having another go
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Awesome stuff!
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Great fish Kev, that water looks crystal clear!!! :rck"
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Will try keep an update of what fish are coming out in Underberg. Fished a neighbours dam today and got a fat 4 pounder, lost a few others. I hear that a 10.9 and 8 pounder came out the Turners dam over the weekend, Im guessing its the Ringstead trophy dam
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the conversation seems to have moved on a bit but stocking some big browns just before spring will help. Browns seem to be a lot more piscivorous than rainbows and they will klap those baby bass properly. There is nothing quite as aggressive as a big brown trout. They will also become much bigger feeding on 3in bass fry.
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Thanks David, I have been toying with the idea of putting some browns in. So far though Im pretty impressed with how well the rainbows have done.
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Such a nice thread
I want a Dam on my doorstep (clap)
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Browns definitely are more aggressive, but if you have a good population of Rainbows they will keep levels of smaller fish down a bit, Rainbows in decent condition eat mice, huge beetles and even small snakes, but yeah Browns would probably do a lot more damage to the Bass population.
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Thanks David, I have been toying with the idea of putting some browns in. So far though Im pretty impressed with how well the rainbows have done.
The problem is going to be getting bigger browns Kev - getting ova is hard enough :-( . I would suggest you book some with either Wolf or Arthur for next year but I don't know if you will get bigger than 5-6". Good luck.
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Even in Lydenburg, heard from a guide at dullstroom that they are struggling to get enough numbers of larger browns to distribute...
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thanks krissi
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Quick 20mins last night and picked up a nice fat 44cm fish and a stocky. home tied orange woolly bugger
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My nephew came and spent the day fishing in our 2 dams - here are 3 of many trout that he caught - all safely released and swam away strongly.
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(clap) Very good sized fish!
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good looking fish
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Fishing Really picking up, I got a 50cm fish in a howling wind last week. My father in law came for the weekend and in about 6 hours fishing he got 15 above 45cm, the biggest just short of 60cm. He lost at least 20 others. Happy to say he only got a handful of bass. Baby Rainbow fly doing the damage
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Nice, glad to hear about the decline in Bass...
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3 of us fished my neighbours dam yesterday afternoon, in about 3 hrs in cold misty conditions we had one of our best sessions in a long time, between us we got 25 fish between 2-5 pounds, fish are in superb condition and gave a really good tussle. got my fish of the day on the last cast as the boat hit the side, a beaut of 4.5pounds
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(clap) Well done Kev - beautiful fish and excellent condition
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Thanks Krissi , some of yours I think - green end / wood end dam
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Great one there (clap)
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Hi Kevf
I'm in underberg from the 31st and would love to try my hand at some trout fishing.
Is there any chance of letting me and the family come and fish your dam.
Regards
Andrew
:fshn:
AKA Ppasmrf
078 087 7885
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Hi Andrew,
Any other year would have been great but Im afraid its a puddle at the moment and the weed concentration is so high its pretty much unfishable, water (or a lack thereof) is a major issue here at the moment.
Hope you find some waters to fish, The UHTFC would be your best bet
cheers
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Conditions are pretty sad here in Underberg at the moment. The drought is hitting us hard and most of the rivers are only just flowing. Dam levels are dropping and day temperatures are extreme - either very cold, really hot (35 degrees plus) and unusually strong winds - again either hot berg winds or cold south easterly. There is no sign of rain in the near future either.
We have lost all our prize trout (between 3 and 5kg) that I had been feeding for 4 years in our little home dam - they all died within 2 days :cry: .
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My in laws came to visit this weekend and father in law did some fishing yesterday. Got 5 on Saturday am , biggest was a cock fish of 1,7kgs , cock fish got there dark brown colors on and one of the hens was leaking eggs on the release! He Got 2 in the afternoon best was a hen of 2,7kgs(5,9 pounds!!!) all fish are in excellent condition! Really great news considering the season we had was such a shocker. Stocking the right sized trout at the right time in a bass dam can work out quite well! Can't wait till I can fish again !
Orange flies doing the business again
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Very nice Kev, any pics?
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No photo of the big fish unfortunately
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Awesome (clap) :clfoto:
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(clap) (clap) good to see. I must say I am missing my winter trout fishing. Have not had the opportunity to flyfish since moving back to Durban.