ULTIMATE ANGLING - the Ultimate SA Fishing website
General Angling Topics => Hook, line and sinker - Tackle talk => Topic started by: Tommo on June 21, 2012, 11:31:34 AM
-
When fishing with bait, live or dead, one of the most effective methods is using a circle hook. These hooks ensure a good hookset, and also enable fish to be released in good shape after the fight. Circle hooks are ideal for any fish that will eat a whole bait, which includes all of the predatory species.
How Circle Hooks Work:
Circle hooks look odd, with the point facing inwards, and for this reason many people are not that keen to try them out. They are designed to hook fish on the way out of the mouth, after the bait has been swallowed, and line tension pulls the hook back out of the mouth from the throat of the fish. The in bent point prevents the hook from hooking the fish in the throat, gills or stomach, but swivels into place and penetrates the fishes jaw as it exits the mouth.
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff447/craigfish1/Barotse%20Tiger%20Fish/Circlehook.jpg)
Choosing the right circle hook:
Using the correct circle hook for the job is the first step. I recommend a circle hook that has its point in line with the shank of the hook, as opposed to offset. Also the hook should be strong while being made from a light gauge wire, ensuring good penetration. The best hooks for the job in my opinion are the VMC Tournament Circle hooks in size 4/0. Others that will also do the job well are Gamakatsu Nautilus circle hooks while Eagle Claw, Mustad and Owner all make good hooks as well, as long as they fit in with the above criteria.
Rigging Circle Hooks:
The best way to rig a circle hook, is to snell the leader or trace onto the hook shank. This can be done with Nylon coated or carbon coated wire, as well as uncoated knottable wire or mono leader, fluorocarbon etc. Piano wire is not ideal for use on circle hooks. The best way to join the hook to the wire is by snelling it on, with the trace coming into the eye of the hook from the point side.
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff447/craigfish1/Barotse%20Tiger%20Fish/snelled.jpg)
It is best to use quite a long trace for circle hook fishing, so make the length of the leader at least 50cm long.
Baiting circle hooks:
The important thing when baiting a circle hook is to not choke the gape of the hook. For this reason you want the bait to simply hang off the hook, leaving the hook gape open. Live bait can simply be hooked through the top lip and out between the nostrils, while fillets and dead bait should be hooked on similarly, so that the bait hangs from the hook. While this does not look pretty, it is effective. The pic below shows a piece of squid baited on a circle hook. A fish fillet can be put on the same way.
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff447/craigfish1/Barotse%20Tiger%20Fish/Baitedcircle.jpg)
Another option for rigging livebait is to attach a small J-Hook to the circle hook, using soft wire and hook the livebait with the small hook, as illustrated in the pic below:
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff447/craigfish1/Barotse%20Tiger%20Fish/DSC_7856.jpg)
How to use the circle hook:
The two most important points when using circle hooks are firstly to allow the fish to swallow the bait before attempting to set the hook. The hook and bait need to have been swallowed for it to work. The second important point is not to strike at all, but to allow the line to tighten and the hook to be pulled into place by the line tightening. Striking will most often simply pull the hook and bait out of the fish's mouth, while a gradual tightening of the line will allow the hook to swivel into place naturally. Once the line is tight, and the fish is on, then you can further set the hook by giving the rod a couple of firm nods.
Therefore, once the bait has been picked up by a fish, you should allow it sufficient time to eat the bait properly while the reel is giving line freely. Once you decide that the bait has been swallowed, then tighten up and only give a couple of firm nods to the rod once the line is properly tight and the fish is pulling hard on the other end. Simple!
By using circle hooks you will seldom gut hook, or throat hook fish, and the chances of your fish surviving the experience is so much better than using any other method of bait fishing. Also, because the hook will not set in the guts, you can allow it to feed a bit longer before deciding to set the hook without concern that it is going to be hooked to deep. This cuts out some of the anxiety of striking too soon which can happen when fishing with conventional J-hooks and not wanting to kill the fish.
-
:shre:
-
(clap) ... Awesome stuff ... :tkx: Tommo .... :win:
-
Thanks Tommo - very well written and explained; my biggest problem with using circle hooks is that it requires a whole mind-set change and old habits are hard to break, especially not striking. I am keen to try it and will do so at our next compo.
-
Hi Tommo,nice one.
One question,when using circel hooks, must you go bigger or smaller than than the normal J hook. Say when using a 6/0 J hook what size circle will I use ?
Thanks
-
Tommo, what "soft wire" do you use to attach the small J-hook to the circle, and what knots? Is this Piano wire with a Haywire twist?
-
:shre: :resp: :corrct: :ult:
-
Super post, Tommo! :win: I only use circles when fishing with live bait and have yet to get a badly hooked fish. They also make releasing fish a breeze. I only lost 1 fish on a circle but it was my own fault. We had a double up on Kob and I was assisting my Dad with his fish. His Kob was bigger than mine and I did not keep my line tight. I didn't mind loosing my fish, the look on my Dad's face when he landed his 6.9kg Kob was a big enough reward.
-
Thanks guys.
Reefz, Any soft wire will do, copper wire or a light galvanised wire. I find piano wire too stiff. Simply wrap the soft wire around the circle hook shank 3 times, then put it through the eye of the small J-hook, bend it into a small U shape, and wrap it 3 times around the circle hook shank again on the other side of the hook, as in the pic. There is very little strain on the small hook, as it is just a bait holder, so it doesn't have to be a super strong connection.
BETTYS; That's a tricky question as all circle hook manufacturers seem to have completely different size ratings. A 4/0 VMC is totally different to a 4/0 Mustad for example. The thing is that the gape (distance between the point and shank) must be wide enough to fit around the scissors part of the jaw of the fish that you are targeting. You can go pretty small such as 2/0 VMC(if you can find them) for species such as blacktail, galjoen, bronze bream etc. 4/0 VMC is good for fish up to around 10kg. The hooks don't have to be huge at all, as long as they can accomodate the jawbone in the gape.
Bruce Mann and his team of research guys use circle hooks with the barbs squashed flat when on tagging trips. They are very effective. When you get a fish that is pecking, such as a blacktail youcan just tighten up by reeling in a little bit of line. If the fish has the bait in his mouth he will get hooked. If not you are not pulling the bait away from him like when you strike and he will keep biting. In fact slowly retrieving the bait once you are getting knocks often stimulates the fish to grab the bait properly. The instinct to strike is always there, but if you keep reminding yourself, you can overcome it and it is a nice challenge to try something new.
-
Tomma last week I got 3 pic ups with big baits(sharks). I set the hook, the fish were taking line....and off. Why?
I was using 13/0 Mustad Z-Steel.
Btw respect for a well written and informative post.
-
Hi WJ, it could be a number of reasons. Perhaps your bait blocked the gape of the hook? It is unusual for a circle hook to pull on a shark, normally they are vas first time. The good thing about using circles for sharks is that there is almost no pressure on your trace, as he is hooked in the scissors and your trace is outside his mouth. I have landed quite a few big sharks on nylon traces using circle hooks. My worry about the Z-Steel hooks is that they are very corrosion resistant, so if you get a break off that hook is stuck in the fish's mouth for a long, long time, a bit like using stainless steel hooks.
Are you just using the one hook, and is the gape well clear of bait?
-
I only use one hook when fishing with circles(do not see the point of 2).
I attach the hook either with dacron or with Piano wire to the bait. If it is a head bait I just put the hook through the nose of the bait.
What other circle will you suggest I use? The general fish targeted are big rag bags and black tips. I only now made the shift to circles so I am open to suggestions.
-
Ok good, just checking, some guys use two hooks and that makes no sense. Sometimes when the bait is off the hook a bit, such as with dacron, it can turn into the bait, which blocks the gape. A good idea is to get some plastic tubing like they use with fishtank pumps and slip that over the dacron to give the rig some stiffness and keep the hook from swiveling into the bait. It sounds like you are doing the right thing though, so it is puzzling that you are losing fish. As long as the hook gape is completely open you should be nailing it.
The VMC circle hooks are made from materials that are very strong, but will rust away with time if left in the fish's jaw. I have done well with VMC hooks, so can recommend them.
-
Tomma last week I got 3 pic ups with big baits(sharks). I set the hook, the fish were taking line....and off. Why?
I was using 13/0 Mustad Z-Steel.
Btw respect for a well written and informative post.
What type of trace wire were you using? Especially with rags, some types of wire gets stuck in their teeth (thickly coated wire) and the hook never sets.
And a second question that might sound stupid - did your sinker break off? Around here the rags eat sinkers for some reason.
Wait a bit longer to tighten up with circles. If the fish is 150m+ out on nylon topshot, don't be afraid to strike with a circle. The stretch negates this and I get better hookups this way. Tighten up and give it a couple of hard knocks.
-
Thanks Tommo and Adam, will put it to use. Hehehe hopefully I have photos to show after the weekend. @ adam...I use industrial steel 1.5mm(non-coated). The thing is hook was set, and then just off(3 times in a row). I came out with everything(hook and sinker). Maybe it was just a case of "skelm" raggies.
Revenge is on the cards for this weekend. Again thanks tommo :udman:
-
Tomma last week I got 3 pic ups with big baits(sharks). I set the hook, the fish were taking line....and off. Why?
I was using 13/0 Mustad Z-Steel.
Btw respect for a well written and informative post.
What type of trace wire were you using? Especially with rags, some types of wire gets stuck in their teeth (thickly coated wire) and the hook never sets.
And a second question that might sound stupid - did your sinker break off? Around here the rags eat sinkers for some reason.
Wait a bit longer to tighten up with circles. If the fish is 150m+ out on nylon topshot, don't be afraid to strike with a circle. The stretch negates this and I get better hookups this way. Tighten up and give it a couple of hard knocks.
I don't kown what you put on your circles but you might try a hook next time, LOL Adam you had more pickups on sinkers than you hooked them
-
Haha. Thinking of putting a hook on the sinker too
WJ - did the bait come out as well? Sounds as if the hooks never set, just the fish hanging on to the bait. Try to rig the bait so that the hook has more free movement.
-
That maybe the case, but the bait didn't come out. I don't know, I am gonna try saturday again and see what happens.
I have had an awful spell of bad luck for 2 months now, I think it is time that my luck turns.
-
Hi Tommo,
Firstly great artical. I was reading RS&D last night about small edibles with circles.
I normally use prawn and white mussel for bait. Preferred target Cape White stump-nose.
How would bait up with that? Is it the same as mentioned?
If you have any more illustrations or step by step methods would really be informative.
Thanks
-
Awesome article Tommo I have really been trying to make a switch to circles for R&S and I'd like to put a few questions over. I know sliding baits is a bit different to offshore fishing with circles but as someone with more hook ups on circle than anyone else I know I'm sure you can help!
1) Do you think it matters whether the hook points up from the baits nose? I'm so used to rigging baits with hooks pointing either up or down having it across the bait seems strange to me :dunno: I normally put a cable tie through the hard part of the baits nose which keeps the gape clear and the mouth closed.
2) A lot of anglers rig up a trace with circle on the top and a j hook on the bottom. The idea being that smaller fish like your small greys etc will eat the softer flesh and be hooked on the J hook while your bigger fish will eat the entire bait and be hooked on the circle. In my own disfunctional brain this seems counter productive. We go to the lengths of using snell knots to keep the connection smooth and not interfere and now add a hook designed to hook the first object it bumps into. In fact it seems it could result in more gut hook ups as you need to let the fish eat so the J hook will now be deeper than if you struck as you felt the pull? So any merits to combination traces?
3)Is there any merit to a double circle hook rig?
-
3)Is there any merit to a double circle hook rig?
Ok good, just checking, some guys use two hooks and that makes no sense.
:hnthnt:
-
Hi Moolies; With small soft baits such as prawn, white mussel, chocka etc you can actually bait up much the same as on a normal hook. Just keep the point exposed. I find that with smaller circles when targeting edibles with these soft baits it works just fine when the bait is loaded onto the hook. The hanging off bait is more for larger, denser baits such as a whole fish, fish head, live bait, or a big fillet.
Hey Half Pint; First up I don't think it matters at all oif the hook points up from the nose or not, the hook will still pull into place on its way out.
Using two hooks makes no sense to me when using circles. I have seen it done, but I wouldn't do it. I agree the chance is there to gut hook fish really deep.
No need for two circle hooks, and one is just likely to interfere with the other.
Long liners have been using circle hooks for years. They have pretty much perfected a rig where fish catch themselves with nobody to strike on the other end. They just use one hook with a chunk of bait hooked on to it, very simple.
Best of luck with it all, once it is working for you your confidence in them will grow and you will find yourself seldom using J-hooks again.
-
So you do have a purpose Homes :hehe: thanks bru next time Ill try reading before posting :blush:
-
Thanks Tommo! I'm happy to see I'm not completely crazy with my ideas :hehe:
-
Im new to this site and have been struggling to get the circle hook thing right particularly for tigers. The initial pace of the hit often leaves you confused as to whether the fish has eaten or just has the bait in its mouth and is leaving the shoal to chow it properly...
tightening up on the intial run is often too early and by trying to wait too long the fish wouldnt eat the whole bait most times and just lose interest.....
Any pointers?
-
Thanks Tommo
I look forward to trying this out.
-
Im new to this site and have been struggling to get the circle hook thing right particularly for tigers. The initial pace of the hit often leaves you confused as to whether the fish has eaten or just has the bait in its mouth and is leaving the shoal to chow it properly...
tightening up on the intial run is often too early and by trying to wait too long the fish wouldnt eat the whole bait most times and just lose interest.....
Any pointers?
There is no magic formula, but if a tiger hasn't swallowed the bait within about ten seconds of picking it up, then the bait is clearly too big for the fish. Usually he picks it up and speeds off, slows down a bit while he eats and then speeds off again. It is better to err by leaving it too long, than by striking too soon. If the fish has swallowed the bait he would battle to then spit it out without getting hooked. The line drag in the water would be enough to pull the hook into place. The fish would usually jump then to try and throw the hook. If you tighten up you should still get him.
-
Thanks Tommo. Many of my mental meanderings have just been confirmed.
I am such a circle convert... a few years back, I spent a day out on the water with a mate down in the E.Cape. He was fishing with normal J hooks, I was fishing Circles of approximately the same size. He spent his day pulling up little peckers (I think he called them Jan Groot Oog... a total little pest) and all I caught was decent size bream, grunter and quite a good Cracker.
Since then, if I've ever had the urge to fish with bait, I have stuck with a circle. I'm wanting to start experimenting now with circles on artificials.
-
I'm wanting to start experimenting now with circles on artificials.
Great article! Thanks Tommo. I'm also curious about the use of circle hooks with artificials and soft plastics. Especially bass fishing. Do you think rigging up a Fluke or artificial soft plastic bait on a circle hook will work?
-
I have had mixed success with circles on artificials. I am not convinced that they are the way to go. Due to the fact that circles hook the fish on the way out, after being swallowed they are not ideal for lures. With lures you want a hook that will penetrate on impact, so you want an exposed point. I have done well with circles on flies, mainly because the fly is small and gets totally engulfed and also because it isn't bulky the material does not inhibit the hooks penetration. With a spoon or hard lure this is not the case. I do think that they would work well on a dropshot, and have tried them a bit on soft plastics with some success. It boils down to the fish gulping the whole lure in one go.
-
Thanks Tommo, this makes sense.... gonna try downsizing the bait as I suspect this is where Im going wrong..... thanks again
-
That maybe the case, but the bait didn't come out. I don't know, I am gonna try saturday again and see what happens.
I have had an awful spell of bad luck for 2 months now, I think it is time that my luck turns.
then the fish was probably just hanging on to the bait and came off as soon as it tore the bait off the hook.
Try something like this:
Cable tie through both upper and lower jaw and pull tight so that hook kinda sits sideways. Allows free movement for the hook while still remaining firmly stuck to bait.
Also works well through the eyes - how I rig live bait from time to time.
-
just for your enjoyment:
Barble on a 10 - 12/0 VMC. Tried as we might we couldn't get it back in there. And there was quite a large mackerel head attached to it as well....
-
Great article Tommo, :resp: :tkx: I've been using circles for tigers for a while with some success. I just tie a sardine fillet on with the circle protruding from the bait, I'm not sure if that's the best set up, what would you recommend?
-
Thanks. Great post Tommo.
-
Nice one Craig
-
My favourite circle for saily pitch baits in the Musandam
Owner Mutu Tournament
I find them a lot more forgiving on the hookset than full Circles and super strong and sharp.
-
That maybe the case, but the bait didn't come out. I don't know, I am gonna try saturday again and see what happens.
I have had an awful spell of bad luck for 2 months now, I think it is time that my luck turns.
then the fish was probably just hanging on to the bait and came off as soon as it tore the bait off the hook.
Try something like this:
Cable tie through both upper and lower jaw and pull tight so that hook kinda sits sideways. Allows free movement for the hook while still remaining firmly stuck to bait.
Also works well through the eyes - how I rig live bait from time to time.
Thanks adam, will give a try tomorrow morning.
-
Gread post Tommo :corrct:
Had a chat to a guy recently, who said that they use circle hooks for fly fishing but attach a hookless fly and then the circle is trailing behind the fly. The theory is that when a fish bites, you will hit as usual and the trailing circle will hook on the outside of the fish's mouth. He says that the surface area on the outside is greater than the scissor of the mouth, hence he uses this system.
He mentioned there is a video on youtube explaining this, will search for it later and upload the link.
Is there any merit in using this system for R&S?
For toothies maybe not such a good idea but for edibles will it work?
-
Great post Tommo!
I too am a circle hook convert. Two things that I took a while to learn ( 2 years of blanking. LOL ) but are vital for the circle hook to be set correctly.
One has to use a SNELL knot, as per your pics and
Do NOT strike, when I get my first thump, thump, I drop the tip about 10 / 15 deg and then when the next thump comes I lift the rod slowly to get a tight line and to date I have been vas more often than not.
my2c
-
Here's the link to the video
Circle Hook Dynamics (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-gk9-IXTjw#)
-
Great post SG! Amazing what guys think of?!! Would never have thought this could work.. the hook working from the outside of the mouth!
-
Tomma and adam, I guess it was bad luck loosing those previous fish. Tried it again this weekend and worked like a charm. Thanks again for all the help :win: BTW caugt it on a Diawa Saltist 50 BG and the pinion held, how lucky am I :creep: :creep: :creep: :hyst:
-
Good one Spotted G!!! Very interesting.
-
Great catch, WJ. I am glad to see you finally got your fish. (clap)
Where did you catch the shark in your avatar? It looks like you were using light tackle in a lagoon or river?
-
Great catch, WJ. I am glad to see you finally got your fish. (clap)
Where did you catch the shark in your avatar? It looks like you were using light tackle in a lagoon or river?
Caugt it on my dropshot outfit in Gonubie River, gave me an big rev....was awesome fun. Hahaha I measured it precaudial 130cm, I heard afterwards you measure Smooth Hounds overall lenght :nuts:
-
Well done WJ! Great to see some good results there. You must have been super stoked!
-
Ja dammit after having the worst of luck(6 or 7 big fish lost), it was a nice feeling getting something out again. Hehehe hopefully my fishing can now return to normal. Thanks again tommo :tkx:
-
Lekker fish WJ. Glad your luck is turning. I'm in such a "bad luck spell" at the moment
-
great thread tommo,i went over to using circles about 3 and a half years ago and have landed more fish since changing and released a lot more fish with less damage and injuries to the fish.my circle hook of choice is the( Gamakatsu inline octopus circle se) very strong and good value for money i use them for all edibles from from size 12&10 for caddis fly nymph for vaal yellows right up to 8/0s for cob and i have never had to strike or lost a fish since using them.
-
Great post Tommo!!!!
Just for interests sake I have seen an 8 kg barbel caught on a 2 circle hook rig...
-
After reading this post, I decided to try circle hooks this weekend. I must admit I was very nervous and the other anglers very sceptical. I started with a 4/0 and a small piece of chokka dangling from the bottom of the hook. Nothing on the first bait, so I added a small piece of prawn to the back of the hook - a very fiddly process on that curve. I kept a "don't strike" litany in my head. First fish, 43cm fishtail barbel - right in the scissors as Tommo described. I then landed a catface rockcod and shad - all neatly hooked in the scissors. The shad was on a chokka strip with a red-eye cutlet on the back of the shank. Snoot line was .67 fluoro. I was using my Stimulator 3.5 and Torium 14 loaded with Whiplash braid - not sure of the breaking strain, but its light.
At dusk we moved and I brought out my P5 and grinder, 0.9 fluoro snoot and 6/0 circle. I baited up with my patagonia squid, trying to get as much of the bait on the back of the shank as possible. I landed my best catch of the weekend on this bait ------ a 12cm lessor on a 6/0 circle :hyst: . It was SO darn cute and was hooked in the middle of the bottom lip. I then moved to the beach and kept on with the 6/0 as the other anglers were complaining about the peckers. I landed a 30cm stumpie and 70cm lessor - again the lessor was hooked in the middle of the bottom lip.
I had 8 takes in the compo and landed 7 fish - losing 1 because I struck instinctively. I have gone from sceptical to sold on circles and will definitely use them from now on. I am very confident that if I had been using J hooks, I would not have had the success rate that I did.
I ran into Dean Pretorius this morning and asked him about baiting circles. He told me to premake the baits, including using foam, then thread the circle onto the bait - something I am keen to try. He mentioned that he didn't think circles worked with braid, and was very surprised to hear that I had only fished with braid and caught lessors on circles. I would like Tommo's opinion on this - in my mind, and having proved it on a small scale, circles would be effective with braid, as the contact is so direct - the fish seems to catch itself as it swims off. All I did was be patient and then start reeling in slowly until I felt the fish resist.
Another question - what is the minimum amount of space needed in the gape for the circle to be effective? eg 50%
-
Well after my last week in mazeppa I am completely sold on circle hooks for non eds! I had to guard my traces because the guys were stealing all my circle hook traces! Every fish was hooked in the corner of the mouth, not one hook pulled loose and the gillies loved them because they could put pressure on the leader without fear of tearing the hooks out. When the time came to pull the hook out they came out without any hassle
-
Tomma last week I got 3 pic ups with big baits(sharks). I set the hook, the fish were taking line....and off. Why?
I was using 13/0 Mustad Z-Steel.
Btw respect for a well written and informative post.
What type of trace wire were you using? Especially with rags, some types of wire gets stuck in their teeth (thickly coated wire) and the hook never sets.
And a second question that might sound stupid - did your sinker break off? Around here the rags eat sinkers for some reason.
Wait a bit longer to tighten up with circles. If the fish is 150m+ out on nylon topshot, don't be afraid to strike with a circle. The stretch negates this and I get better hookups this way. Tighten up and give it a couple of hard knocks.
this might be the reason for me :blush: [size=78%] missing a couple of good runs......[/size]
-
Anyone tried circles for deep sea fishing?
Would it be ideal?
-
Anyone tried circles for deep sea fishing?
Would it be ideal?
yes they work very well, especially if your main line is a mono with stretch the fish hooks itself. We went out with my 6year old Grandson and we rigged my short jigging stick and reel which is loaded with braid with a 2 hook trace made from circles, he lowered the bait and when he got a bait we just said wind, and up came the fish caught in the scissors
-
Cool. Keen to try it out the next time I go. I assume the hooks should be snelled and not clinched?
-
Cool. Keen to try it out the next time I go. I assume the hooks should be snelled and not clinched?
yep the line must complete the circle stl
http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php?topic=7556.msg110947#msg110947 (http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php?topic=7556.msg110947#msg110947)