Good braids for Spinning

[SCRATCH KING]

Hi Guys. Can I please get a few recommendations on Good Braids for light tackle spinning. I've heard that suffix 832 is a good option. Was also wondering about Kingfisher Cobra Braid and Gator Braid (has anyone tried this and if so, how did you find it?).

[Charles]

I have only used suffix 832 and I was never disappointed.

[REEFMAN]

I use 832 on most of my spinning reels. Been using it ever since it came out, which is probably 5 or 6 years now. In my opinion, one of the better value braids. NB: Actual breaking strain is almost double the stated breaking strain. Long lasting and good casting.

There is now an improved version - the Sufix Pro 8 which is designed as a specific casting braid and has accurate stated breaking strain. Nice braid too.

Daiwa J-braid also doing well on another reel.

[CRANKMAN]

I use 832 on all my bass, tiger and other spinning reels, it is wonderful stuff. As Reefman says, it is way stronger than rated, so go with your minimum requirements when choosing breaking strain.

[SCRATCH KING]

Charles, Reefman and Crankman, thank you for your responses. I think after having checked the following source http://paulusjustfishing.com (for verification of breaking strain being above stated), I'll be settling with the suffix 832. It is on the pricier side, but I think paying the extra few rands will be worth it in the long run. The diameter of the braid seems to be on the thicker side when compared to competing brands in the same stated breaking strain category. However, the tested strain for the most part seems to be on the higher side, so I guess I can opt for a 15 lbs line in place of say a 20lbs. I'll probably still be above the breaking strain that I am looking for, but the diameter will be more in line with the norm for 20lbs test.

Just an additional question, any opinions on Berkley's Whiplash Braid?

[REEFMAN]

We use the Whiplash as backing on all our Multiplier reels. It's the thinnest diam. per b/s. Tried and tested.

The new X8 Casting Whiplash is apparently excellent as well. Haven't used it myself, but there have been good reports.

[SCRATCH KING]

According to the link provided above, the whiplash is actually a lot thicker than it's marketed diameter. Of course, I have never had it in hand so I wouldn't know how much of truth there is to it being thicker than what it is supposed to be.

On the contrary, I've read some reports on the US forums in relation to the Whiplash having issues with wear. Even the slightest bit of wear or abrasion on the line would result in failure according to some. I guess this would explain why you guys are using it as backing instead of main line Reefman?

[SAfish]

As they have mentioned, Suffix 832 is great.
As a point of interrest, how long do you guys use your braid before you change it. I have been using my braid now for over 3 years and it is still going strong. I suppose it depends on how often you fish and how you treat it. I try not to expose it to sunlight if I'm not fishing and give it a good wash with fresh water after each session.

[PatrickH]

I agree that Suffix 832 is probably the best all round braid, breaking at well above it's stated strength


We have  however switched to Gator 4 strand (yellow) and 8 stand (orange) as it has a very thin diameter but great strength.


We get better distance spinning for yellowtail with the thinner diameter braid.


I do use a 6m 832 leader attached to the gator braid and fluoro leader.


i have had gator 4  strand on all my reels for the last 3 years with minimal wear.


I always however rinse my braid in fresh water after use

[REEFMAN]

According to the link provided above, the whiplash is actually a lot thicker than it's marketed diameter. Of course, I have never had it in hand so I wouldn't know how much of truth there is to it being thicker than what it is supposed to be.

On the contrary, I've read some reports on the US forums in relation to the Whiplash having issues with wear. Even the slightest bit of wear or abrasion on the line would result in failure according to some. I guess this would explain why you guys are using it as backing instead of main line Reefman?

Not sure which Whiplash you're referring to, but the older 50lb Whiplash is probably the backing on 95% of all league and Protea angler Multiplier reels over the last 12-13 years. Has landed thousands of tons of Sharks in treacherous conditions. Regardless of whether Whiplash is understated in it's diameter, it's still thinner than most others in the same breaking strain. Not even going to debate this with anyone. It's tried and tested. I've said this before that Paulus' measuring system needs a bit of calibration, because there are measurements stated there that don't make sense; not just with Whiplash, but with several other brands as well. I take Paulus's diam measurements with a pinch of salt. I wouldn't use this braid as Casting braid as there are better alternatives.

The new 8 strand Whiplash - got no opinion on, haven't used it, suffice to say that Ebrahim Dien (Protea Angler) uses it on his Grinder setup and results speak for themselves.

[Visenvryheid]

832> Thick and ropey, the single goretex does not last more than a season of heavy fishing, read this in forum threads in 2011/2 where someone stated this..learned he was right the hard way.. wasted a grand on line to figure it out for myself. HDPE (dyneema) is the best/strongest plastic for the task of surviving the elements and salt, it is no coincidence that every hazardous chemical you can buy including pool acid and drain cleaner will come in an HDPE bottle. When you see mexican cartels throwing guys into tubs of mixtures of acids to melt them and their bones down, those tubs are made with HDPE, there was a breaking bad episode dealing with it, put bodies and acid in hdpe and not the bath..haha anyways..WTF is goretex? Actually, this like the mag oil just made me do some reading to expand the knowledge...ok..Now that I have a decent overview here goes...

Goretex is a fibre made from PTFE, think plumbers tape, and is used in industry for many purposes, the patents have expired so they are now even used in fishing lines! :) Seems fishing lines are the only industry where they add "abrasion resistance" properties.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gore-Tex
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyethylene

" GORE® Performance Fibers improve abrasion resistance, increase casting   distance & accuracy and reduce line vibration.  HMPE fibers provide   high strength & sensitivity, hydrophobic water-repellent protection   and small diameter.  "

If they used of the two leading HDPE fibers then I think they would market the fact, it is strange to me that the fibre that they do market is the goretex which they would have to licence to use the name. This they do not need to do as the patents have expired but what seems to me to be of bigger importance to sufix/rapala/vmc is the goretex brand as opposed to the goretex fiber which they could make themselves or get made for them independently..The goretex brand has no significance to fishing lines especially in terms of the main theme used which is abrasion resistance, the brands' main presence is felt is outdoor clothing markets where the moisture wicking, breathability, lightness and chemical inertness are the main attributes. So why include the goretex fiber? My reasoning is that they are not using a premium HDPE fiber in the 832 weave. They state that they are using a HMPE fiber, which is not an industry term of any certain standard of HDPE but a general term but if they were using one of the premium brands they would state it like everyone else..My guess is that the goretex to them makes the ropey weave and HDPE fiber that they use, smoother in casting and retrieve. The fiber they use is maybe not the best quality so they have to understate breaking strain and use a larger diameter that they would have to using a premium fiber (understating line diameter also). The PFTE fiber is weak and stretches so they are limited to using one fiber only,adding 2 or more of them probably affected the lines strength and fishablity too much. Now I get fully why I've noticed the goretex fiber broken but rest of line perfect after fighting decent fish on it..

https://www.rapala.com/sufix/braid/832-advanced-superline/832-advanced-superline/832+Advanced+Superline.html

As stated their stated diameters on the page above are PURE BS. Nothing more..Their lines are considerably thicker than what is stated, some I guess double looking at similar mono and other braids.

So onto my reasoning, spectra and dyneema are brands of HDPE fibers..they are made with the highest grade of HDPE fibers you get, more expensive as it is the extra refining that is responsible for the uniform fibers that give it the strength and its' physical characteristics..Their grade of HDPE which they are not scared of stating is UHMWPE, Ultra high molecular weight polyethylene. This specific PE fiber is "... a very tough material, with the highest impact strength of any thermoplastic presently made." from wiki.

https://www.ballyribbon.com/fibers/spectra-dyneema/
https://www.ballyribbon.com/fibers/ptfe/

One can see there, the goretex has 1/10 -1/15 the tenacity of dyneema, while having 10x the stretch and double the weight per volume. Not the ideal fishing line?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-high-molecular-weight_polyethylene

Here they state "Its coefficient of friction is significantly lower than that of nylon and acetal and is comparable to that of polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE, Teflon), but UHMWPE has better abrasion resistance than PTFE." So my reasoning is that if using the highest grade of HDPE that competitors are, why include a fiber of "comparable" friction, more weight, lower strength, different stretch characteristics and lower "abrasion resistance? The only clear answer to me is that they are not using UHMWPE fibers but a lower grade which has a lower coeffiecient of friction than the goretex and lower abrasion resistance too. Other they would just do an 8 strand weave with dyneema and just be done with the smoothest line highest abrasion resistance possible? The only reason I guess would be for cost, as the premium stuff is premium for a reason, the manufacturers of it charge! I also buy blocks of UHMWPE from maizeys for making plugs and know that it is not cheap, it does though cost more than 10 times cheaper by weight (way more) that the line made from the same material so the few manufacturers charge a premium having the monopoly and production lines already setup. Once setup the stuff is not expensive to make at all from a raw materials point of view, a spool of line does not weigh much. They issue is having the methods and protocols already setup and quality control down. This is why there are so few large CPU chip manufacturers and the speed, until we have diamond chips, limited by production quality more than anything else these days. Also dyneema holds their brand so highly that they will not approve of anyone using their brand in marketing unless they have thoroughly approved of the quality of the product coming off that licenced production line and it meets their standards. Their standard is to be the best in the world and nothing less, they seem to be proud of them having the strongest line in the world.

http://www.dsm.com/content/dam/dsm/dyneema/en_GB/Downloads/Infographics/So%20You%20Think%20All%20HMPE%20Fiber%20is%20the%20same.pdf

So basically any line that uses dyneema's brand specifically in their branding or market will be of the best in the world. There will be just subtle variations like weave, number of strands and coatings, depending on the desired application. The authentically branded dyneema lines will the the most expensive in the world, but the are without argument the best, used by industry for that reason is my understanding. So basically if one is lucky enough to live in a country that makes a dyneema line domestically and you can buy it with minimal middlemen and mark-ups and import/export taxes, shipping costs and duties built into the price, then you are lucky. We are in that boat in SA and I think in PE it should be easy to find, in Cape Town I don't see it that much but to me HMP, if you can find it, is a no brainer. Fishing with a bunch of lines, I find it a league above 832, fireline, spiderwire and other "cheap" braids. Had a spool of a japanese dyneema and I found it comparable. Accurate breaking strains, diameter not stated but I found them to be thinner than braids above for comparable real breaking strain. Longer lasting, better casting, more abrasion resistance, all it should be based on reading above..Now I get why it was my favourite of the lines in my budget. Gatorbraid have not used the 8 strand but the 4 strand 50lb was the worst of the braids I've tried along with spiderwire.

[REEFMAN]

As they have mentioned, Suffix 832 is great.
As a point of interrest, how long do you guys use your braid before you change it. I have been using my braid now for over 3 years and it is still going strong. I suppose it depends on how often you fish and how you treat it. I try not to expose it to sunlight if I'm not fishing and give it a good wash with fresh water after each session.

Once every 2 years, I swop my braid around on all my reels. Reverse it. Put the used part of the braid back near the bottom of the spool, putting the fresh unused braid back at the top!
You can have a good look at it and inspect it while doing this.

My Sufix 832 with GORE fibre...  (same as they use in bulletproof vests; same stuff as what they use in repairing aorta's and femoral arteries etc), is going strong now on 5 to 6 years. Not thick, not ropey, no snapoffs, and the most abrasion resistant braid I've ever used. (Except for Fireline, which is not really braid).

HMP local braid is developing a very strong reputation though... that will probably be the next one I try.

[Visenvryheid]

Sorry to correct you reefs but some misunderstanding there..

Goretex used in medical applications due to porosity and the inherent chemical inertness, not strength nor abrasion resistance. It is used in bullet proof vests but to increase the breathability of the kevlar fiber matrix. These days they now rather use dyneema actually in bulletproof vests, personal armor and cut resistant gloves instead of kevlar as it is superior.

"Gore-Tex is also used internally in medical applications, because it   is nearly inert inside the body. In addition, the porosity of Gore-Tex   permits the body’s own tissue to grow through the material, integrating   grafted material into the circulation system.^[18]   Gore-Tex is used in a wide variety of medical applications, including   sutures, vascular grafts, heart patches, and synthetic knee ligaments,   which have saved thousands of lives.^[19] In the form of expanded polytetrafluoroethylene (E-PTFE), Gore-Tex has recently been used as membrane implants for glaucoma surgery.^[20]"


http://www.dsm.com/products/dyneema/en_US/applications/personal-armor.html
http://www.dupont.com/products-and-services/personal-protective-equipment/body-armor/articles/most-flexible-vests.html

Second link to the maufacturer dupont, of the goretex containing products..

"The Summit ST line features an advanced, thin and flexible all Kevlar®   hybrid design providing unmatched ballistic protection. This patented,   unidirectional Kevlar aramid fiber provides increased protection against   special threats and backface deformation. Additionally, the Summit ST   features a GORE-TEX® breathable and anti-bacterial panel covering to   help prevent germs and odor from accumulating. This panel also helps to   reduce heat build-up which keeps the officer cooler and ultimately more   comfortable."

Hence my earlier conclusions.

http://www.boats.com/on-the-water/the-best-braid-fishing-line-dyneema-or-spectra/

"
NEWS FLASH: all of those different brands are made from one of two   materials, Spectra (made by Honeywell) or Dyneema (made by a company in   the Netherlands called DSM), and these materials are so incredibly   similar that they’re known in the industry as “sister” lines. Both are   made from gel-spun polyethylene. Both offer the same characteristics,   and both cost about the same. So, what’s the difference? There really   isn’t any. Some lines claim to be rounder then others but that aside,   it’s all more or less the same stuff. (Note – don’t confuse braid with   “fused” lines, which are heated to fuse some of the fibers together.   These lines are more abrasion-resistant then braids, but are also stiff,   tough to cast, and tougher to knot.)
In other words, don’t   knock yourself out stressing over whether to buy brand X over brand Y   because you won’t be able to tell a heck of a lot of difference between   them. Choose according to diameter, pound test, and color as you like,   of course, but branding is far less important. You don’t believe it?   Fine. Spool up two identical rigs with identical sizes and different   brands, then fish them for a couple of seasons – which I’ve already   done. Real-world experience backs up the research; the best braid is   simply the one that’s filling your fishing reel’s spool."


Same basic conclusion as I came to..Between different UHMWPE brands it is much over muchness although dyneema adamantly state they are the best, ie. better than spectra, much over muchness but all other grade HMPE fibers are inferior as UHMWPE is the top grade. PTFE is another ballgame and is not in the same league of strength.

[Visenvryheid]

https://www.safeguardarmor.com/uk/articles/body-armour-materials/

That explains it..Dyneema/kevlar actually used to stop the bullets, goretex there just to keep you from stinking and getting all sweaty and is used in the vest covers..Maybe it helps the HMPE fishing line line breathe and not smell of old bait? :)

[Capt. Hook]

You guys are all way smarter than me.

Visenvryheid: I asked myself why would they add something to the braid that seemingly does nothing and you are talking about Gore Tex so I did a little research and even went and looked at the empty packaging from my 832 braid.
The packaging says GORE performance fibre, not Gore Tex, so I did some research.

One thing I came across is that it aids keeping the cross sectional area consistent in shape which increases knot performance.

I also looks like the Gore Fibre will aid in preventing the braid from soaking up water.

Then I came across this

"GORE Fibers, 100% ePTFE material, are sewn, knitted or woven into many designs that maintain their utility over a long service life. Among its many properties, ePTFE is chemically inert, has universal chemical resistance (ph 0-14), is hydrophobic (repels water) and can withstand exposure to extremely hot (+ 260 degrees C) and cold temperatures (- 250 degrees C).

Sewing thread made from Gore fibers helps outdoor fabrics, such as those used in awnings, umbrellas and pleasure marine products, stand up to the elements. In fact, Gore’s outdoor sewing thread is guaranteed to outlast the fabric into which it is sewn. When sewn into filter bags, Gore’s industrial thread withstands chemicals and extreme temperatures. Ropes used in continuous bending applications incorporate Gore fibers to lengthen their service life without sacrificing performance.

In summary, GORE Fibers stand up to the most rigorous environments and maintain their integrity over a long period of time to extend service life in the most demanding applications.

Sewing Thread for Outdoor Applications

GORE® TENARA® Sewing Thread resists UV sunlight, chemicals, saltwater, extreme weather, and acid rain, and is guaranteed to outlast the fabric into which it is sewn. This makes it ideal for outdoor and marine products such as awnings, umbrellas, furniture, boat covers and sails.
Sewing Thread and Weaving Yarn for Filtration Applications


GORE® RASTEX® Fibers Sewing Thread, made from 100 percent expanded PTFE and engineered specifically for the demands of industrial filter bags, withstands exposure to chemicals, high temperatures, abrasives, and moist environments. GORE RASTEX Fibers Weaving Yarn has exceptional strength and maintains its dimensional stability better than other synthetic and PTFE fibers.

PTFE Fiber Solutions

Gore brings advanced performance to the technical textiles industry with a range of PTFE fiber solutions. Tensile strength, modulus (stiffness), density, surface texture, additive capability such as color and other required attributes are designed into the GORE® Fibers to provide unique solutions with one single fiber material. The fiber can be sewn, knitted or woven into various structures, and combined with other yarn material to achieve the desired properties of the fabric. GORE® Fiber for High Performance Ropes can drastically increase the service life of synthetic ropes used in high-tension bending applications."

[Visenvryheid]

No, no captain..You are WAY smarter than me..can't speak for everyone else..You spend your life fishing..I am still doff and trying to figure out how to get there :)

[REEFMAN]

Yussie okes... dissertations on braid... 

Interesting reading.

[SAfish]

Thanks for the advice, Reefs. My braid is still in very good condition and I have not experienced any snap offs.

[colin]

Wow Visenvryheid  . Interesting read . 

[Visenvryheid]

Ah dang just crashed browser and lost the reply..

Too much time on braid yeah!

Captain correct, I was talking about wrong stuff, but gore fibre and goretex made from gore fibre which is expanded PTFE..So like the difference between speaking of a cotton t shirt, and cotton thread, it is still cotton.

https://www.gore.com/resources/technical-information-gore-performance-fiber-for-high-performance-ropes

Ropes used in testing were normal, or aramid (kevlar type). Was not tested against UHMWPE dyneema ropes which is expected to last the same or more cycles of load before failure anyway. The kevlar has inherent negatives and the gore fiber improves that, lowering friction, and heat which kevlar does not handle. UHMWPE on the other hand is used in self lubricating bushes in industry like PTFE as it has a very low friction and handles those limitations of kevlar quite fine...

http://www.samsonrope.com/Documents/Technical%20Bulletins/TB_Tension_Fatigue_Testing_WEB.pdf

I looked for a comparitive test on dyneema rope.. Here is similar test done by samson ropes, as opposed the the gore fibres tests done at 18.5% load, these were performed at 50%, then 60% etc.. So the gore/aramid rope survived more than 100000 cycles at 18.5% load, better than the aramid rope which lasted a couple of cycles..but not as good as the dyneema rope that lasted over 400000 cycles before breaking at 80% load..My guess is if adding PTFE to the worlds best ropes, which are made of dyneema, could have made them better, they would have at least looked at it..and they did..

http://www.samsonrope.com/Documents/Technical%20Papers/TP_Bending%20Fatigue%20Enhancement%20of%20Synthetic%20Fiber%20Rope_MAR2006.pdf
http://www.samsonrope.com/Documents/Technical%20Papers/TP_Deepwater%20Synthetic%20Lowering%20and%20Lifting_NOV2008.pdf


So captain you are spot on the mark..It seems to help any rope as it lowers friction and temperature considerably. But wait..theres more..It does make the rope stronger with a 15% gore fiber, but marginally so 4-5% stronger. But it dramatically increases the life of bending load cycle. They test aramid lines too like the gore tests, but these are far inferior to the standard HDPE rope. So they test gore PTFE against third party PFTE fiber and the gore is far superior but what makes the biggest difference is their special sauce coating and the best is a 15% gore fiber (as a "veneer" to the hdpe strands, not as a single thread as in 832) plus the coating which gives over 900% increase in service life of bending/load cycles as opposed to normal dyneema HDPE rope, which was better than the gore/aramid rope tested by gore. Non dyneema HDPE rope was inferior in testing too, see below. Learn't something. So the best would be a dyneema branded line, with gore branded fibre mixed in at 15% and a coating of ptfe..done with the right weave..made locally..that would be the win.. For now we can choose dyneema or spectra, everyone else, or everyone else blended with a gore fiber, dyneema we can get locally produced, ..For now we can't have our cake and eat it..just have to choose the best from what is available. Material it is made from most important, then weave etc., coatings, gore fibers etc...

http://www.samsonrope.com/Documents/Technical%20Bulletins/TB_HMPE_Post_Production_Process_WEB.pdf
http://www.samsonrope.com/Documents/Technical%20Bulletins/TB_HMPE%20Ropes_Design%20vs%20Performance_MAR2012_WEB.pdf

But ja..I fish mono mainly :)