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Topic: joining braid leader to main braid  (Read 6928 times)

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Offline Huzair aimara

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joining braid leader to main braid
« on: November 29, 2015, 03:17:09 am »
Hi guys.. need a bit of advice... what knot should i use for joining my 50lbs braid to 100lbs braid leader? I tried a few basic knots but it slipped but not the uni... is there any other good knots to choose from besides the uni?

Offline Cam Mundy

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Re: joining braid leader to main braid
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2015, 04:20:15 am »
Reefs did a nice tutorial a search should turn it up.

Offline REEFMAN

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Offline Huzair aimara

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Re: joining braid leader to main braid
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2015, 11:52:45 am »
Thanks a million gents! I fully understand now....

Offline Jordz

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Re: joining braid leader to main braid
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2015, 02:14:27 pm »
The FG Knot is the way to go, used it sucessful from light spinning with Fluro leaders to in-ed fishing with braid leaders. Have yet to have one pull on me

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Offline Haroldg

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Re: joining braid leader to main braid
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2015, 09:51:14 am »
@Jordz - I've used the FG knot for a few years now - (Braid to Flouro leader) but never on a braid to braid join. Never stop learning.... anything special or just the standard FG?

Offline Jordz

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Re: joining braid leader to main braid
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2015, 10:17:29 am »
@Jordz - I've used the FG knot for a few years now - (Braid to Flouro leader) but never on a braid to braid join. Never stop learning.... anything special or just the standard FG?


Here is a tutorial from Barry himself, I have found this the most easiest, quickest and simplest way to tie an FG know, weather it is to braid or fluro. I will never go back to any other knot

http://www.facebook.com/basil.manning.3/videos/529042820605042/?theater
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Offline krissi

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Re: joining braid leader to main braid
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2015, 12:49:40 pm »
The FG Knot is the way to go, used it sucessful from light spinning with Fluro leaders to in-ed fishing with braid leaders. Have yet to have one pull on me

Agree 100%

Offline colin

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Re: joining braid leader to main braid
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2015, 02:36:54 pm »
 :tkx:
My wife allows me to keep all the fishing tackle I can hide.

Offline Haroldg

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Re: joining braid leader to main braid
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2015, 08:17:43 pm »
@Jordz - thank you kind sir.

Offline Visenvryheid

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Re: joining braid leader to main braid
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2015, 09:20:36 am »
If you have the time at home stitch the thinner braid into the thicker braid leader, then use an FG knot to connect this to your mono shock leader. Braid to braid, stitch, braid to mono, then FG. I count 15 "loops", ie 30 stitches, on both sides of the stitch, stitch thicker into thinner first making sure to leave a long enough tag on the thin end, then stitch the tag end of the thinner braid into the thicker. Trim off your tags cleanly leaving a 2-3mm only tag outside the stitches, tease these ends out with the needle to prevent them from pulling through. If it does pull through. as Reefs said on the other thread discussing this, then just trim it off again and you still have another 29 stitches which is more than enough to hold 100%. I have never actually had a stitch fail on me, I have had to break off stuck plugs on 100% knotted and stitched 80LB setups with 1mm leader, which is a mission, and my mainline breaks somewhere close to the rod, I have had fish explode my mainline for lack of a better description, but the stitches have never let me down.

I have had FG knots fail on me, when you tie it correctly it is 100% or as close as you can get. The tricks to this are...google the "salt strong" video on the easiest way to ties the FG, tie it like so. Sort of.. ;) tricks are, you must make the sure the lay of the wraps are 100% correct by keeping taught and allowing slack in your lines when you tie it, you need to practice and see what I mean by that. Also once you have done your wraps but before you do the first half hitch do this, I saw on another video way back..wet your knot and line thoroughly, then grab the braid tag and braid very tightly around your right hand (if right handed), a glove or cloth helps, and wrap your mono leader around the other, grab your mono tag in your mouth and with great tension pull the braids up and down together so the wraps of the FG slide up and down and tense up until they "bite" or grab into the mono and the braid changes colour and looks like it has fused. Now you are ready to half hitch, do one under tension, sinch it down and you can relax and let go of the tension as it is now held. I then trim off my mono slicing it at an angle as shallow as I can and do half hitches down both braid and mono, I like opposing half hitches for this. I do this until the mono dissapears and then do four to six half hitches in the same direction to act as a ramp for casting and then I do 2- 4 opposing half hitches to finish the knot. Opposing half hitches with not loose tension. When I tie it like this it never fails on me and never looses tension in the wraps, if it does or if one wrap slips a it and tension is lost the whole knot will slip out on the next cast or fish of which both has happened to me.

I found myself quickly NOT using stitches and a braid leader for general bait fishing and scratching as it is too strong a connection and if my hook snood or something other than my sinker line snags and I have to break off I don't want to leave a hundred metres of braid in the sea to maim wildlife, nevermind it gets expensive for me. For this type of fishing I FG a 2m or so .7mm mono leader to my braid mainline and fish off that connected to swivel and trace, so if I have to bust off and my hook is stuck I just leave the trace and a short piece of mono if anything and can just retie a trace to my .7mm leftovers and just carry on fishing. For this fishing one needs careful weak spots to prevent leaving the sea full of gear. For heavy braid spinning don't even play, use braid stitch to heavy braid, FG to heavier mono and finish in very strong knot like palomar or D.Hill knot to a clip. If I have to retie on the water or rocks then I just FG to long 1mm mono leader, or quick bimini with 50-60 turns and then loop to a swivel and leader or just do a triple overhand loop in the braid and loop to a swivel and leader, depending on how hot the action is (ie.how much time I have?) and what class of fish are around. I have destructively tested every knot I could and much to my amazement I found that every and any knot in the braid to swivel or mono, double line or no double line no matter, was vastly inferior to a loop created and looped over the swivel or a properly tied FG. My commercial fisherman mate showed me that just a triple overhand loop in the braid and loop over a swivel was stronger than any double uni or whatever, and it was! A bimini loop is stronger than that but an FG is stronger. 50lb braid stitched to 80 or 100lb braid and FG'd to a 1mm leader is poe$ strong, as strong as I can pull at least which is what you want.

For boat spinning I forgo the braid leader and just have a 4-6m mono leader FG'd to my mainline braid. For lighter stuff, 20/30lb braid to .7mm perline mono, for heavier gear, 50lb 8 strand HMP braid FG'd to 4-6m 1mm mono or 4m .8mm mono and a 1.5m or so leader of 1mm where the final mono knot sits out your guides.. My last fish off 50lb braid, FG and 1mm, clip and plug was a 20kg+ longfin tuna and at no time did I doubt my connections.

I read I think on paulus fishing site, a bad stitch is still better than a good knot and it is completely true I have found. Just have a good backup plan for tying on the rocks or deck in a flash if you loose you whole leader setup to a fish etc...that should cover it.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2015, 10:07:27 am by Visenvryheid »

Offline Haroldg

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Re: joining braid leader to main braid
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2015, 07:41:30 pm »
Braid stitch....


If one left both tag ends a bit longer and finished these off with a few half hitches would this not make the join a bit more secure and stop any slippage?

Offline REEFMAN

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Re: joining braid leader to main braid
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2015, 08:34:59 am »
Braid stitch....


If one left both tag ends a bit longer and finished these off with a few half hitches would this not make the join a bit more secure and stop any slippage?

It defeats the object of having a "knotless" join. Knots weaken braid regardless, (some quite dramatically). The braid stitch is not a knot, but works on the chinese cuff principle, with enough stitches it should never slip.

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Offline Haroldg

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Re: joining braid leader to main braid
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2016, 08:54:11 pm »
I just want to endorse the comments made by Visenvryheid about the braid stitch in his elaborate earlier post. Reefz has also been a long standing advocate of this though I've never seen the need to put this to the test until today when the rain Gods kept me indoors. I just had to test out the theory that a bad stitched join is better than a well tied knot.....

There are however some prerequisites to making this join though :-

1. If after using the most powerful over the counter Clicks spectacles you still cannot see what you're doing then proceed no further.

2. If you have the shakes and need weights around your wrists to keep them still then proceed no further.

3. Don't worry about struggling to thread the needle as the Japs have a nifty little gadget that will make it a doddle even for the likes of Stevie Wonder...

I stitched 20lb Jigman braid to a 50lb braid leader initially starting with the 50lb deciding that if this was successful then stitching the 20lb  to 50lb should be a breeze. I discovered that just pressing down on the braid with your ‌fingernail at the stitching intervals creates a flat spot which helps a lot. Instead of trying to stab the braid I also found it easier to lay the needle flat on the braid and lift into position to stitch.

Conclusion
The total length of the join was 16cm - I could not get the join to fail despite using a set of dowels to pull on the ends.
I tried to stitch just the 20lb to the 50lb as this was much easier but the join just pulled through so you need to stitch both tag ends - obvious now....

After much testing one stitch came adrift - not due to slippage but me continuously running my fingers over the join to flatten it as much as possible. I tried folding the tag end back and stitching it in the opposite direction but this didn't quite help.

I eventually ended both tag ends with stitches a lot closer to avoid a dangling 5mm end. Now I realize that this is cosmetic but that's just me....

A stitched  join for a leader or to create a loop is definitely the way to go - 20lb Jigman is pretty thin and I coped just fine. Just not sure how I'm going to cope later on as the Click's special was the strongest available....
« Last Edit: January 08, 2016, 09:20:02 pm by Haroldg »

Offline REEFMAN

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Offline Haroldg

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Re: joining braid leader to main braid
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2016, 09:52:59 pm »
Thanks Reefz - not surprised that you've been there - done that...


I'm not sure I want to attempt this often on the thinner braids though. I've seen the eye of the needle on your 2013 post and I could easily cope with the thicker braids. I'm glad I tried this out though - it's one thing reading about something - yet another actually doing it... This has given me confidence in the join plus my ability to do it.