Heavy braid to terminal... Knot?

[KING-GT]

Brad do you use a Braid leader on your setup?

30lb yes I use a 50lb leader. Then joined to a 1m piece of mono which joins to the swivel of my trace.

On the 50lb I haven't used a leader but made up some now of 100lb

My problem is I can't cast a 2m drop.... 1m mono + 1m trace...

My Dear Reef Man,


Have you forgotten already as to what guides you have on your SS? You can fish a full length nylon leader with low riders. As for the initial question, assuming you have a 120-200lb braid leader, attach this to the swivel either with a 7 turn uni. There is no need to double it up because at the diameter, your main braid would pop first.


If you are considering to have a setup purely for throw baits, id suggest, 50lb braid to 120lb braid leader (short piece just for the bionic finger) attached this to the nylon leader via FG, Double Polomar (as suggested below) or lastly an Albright.


 

[REEFMAN]

Confused now... Why don't you use a Mono leader? 
Brandon also said I should try a Mono leader, so maybe that's what I'm going to try... tapered leader! Then I don't need the Bionic finger either??

[KING-GT]

Mono is harder to throw on a bionic finger and also its quite awkward on the knot from 50lb braid to a 1mm leader eg.

Tapered works well but awkward on the knot as its quite bulky.

[REEFMAN]

So I'm gonna try a Tapered leader connected to mainline with an FG... that should be the bizz. Cast off my finger then.

[KING-GT]

You never really liked the finger :(

FG is by far the best...just make sure its tied correctly!

[REEFMAN]

No I'm good with the Bionic... really happy with the results I was getting with the Braid leader on the Bionic. Will try the mono on the Bionic as well, maybe it works for me.  If it works like the Braid then it'll be awesome.

Remember, I'm a complete rookie with this setup... with practice I can only improve?

[doc]

I would be very careful of full nylon leader seen a lot of guys experiment with it and it normally ends in a breakoff as the braid just behind the leader wraps around a eye. Especially if they try to force the cast.

[Half-Pint]

I tried the mono leader at Mazeppa and although mine may have been a bit thick at 1.1mm I did not like it because what seems to happen is that the way the leader is stored on the spool contributes to some serious memory. When it comes off the spool it smashes into that first guide and really stops the line speed.

Reckon I will stick to the braid leader to short mono leader outside the guides

[KING-GT]

I would be very careful of full nylon leader seen a lot of guys experiment with it and it normally ends in a breakoff as the braid just behind the leader wraps around a eye. Especially if they try to force the cast.

Not with Low Riders Doc 

[doc]

I see. Still would not try it on my stuff first let somebody else be the guinea pig.

[KING-GT]

Don't fish as often as the coastal guys but the last 6 leagues iv yet to wrap a guide, part off etc. The diff lies in using the correct guides. You can't do this with a flip up guide and the rest of the guides having low rides or k. It has to be a full set. Plenty of advantage!

[doc]

 

[Dewald Posthumus]

Hi Tony,
Brandon built my rod with the first two guides being low riders and the rest normal Fuji guides - theory is that if the first two guides do their job properly, the why go for low riders all the way, and I was on a budget..
Anyway, I use my rod with a Daiwa Oceano 4500 loaded with 14lb Berkley Fireline and tie a .55mm full length leader (FG Knot) and I can cast that setup directly off my spool and you cannot even hear the knot pass through the guides. Forget what you learnt from using braid and leaders with the leader always being outside the guides - it does not apply to low riders - especially when using the FG knot.

[REEFMAN]

Awesome! Thanks guys. Gonna give this a bash this weekend.

[Visenvryheid]

When you say braid leader, I assume you have stitched in a leader to your 50lb?

I would recommend stitching to a 6 - 10m leader of 80-120lb high quality 8 strand braid, the cheap rovex (rebranded sufix) boat braid was perfect for this as was HMP. Then tie FG to a 1.2 mm or 1mm nylon leader. Tie the FG "the easy way" where the braid is taught and the mono is taken away from you then towards you, that method gets the consistent correct line lay of the braid in the weave of the chinese finger trap, do the first half hitch to secure the knot then pull the crap out of it to tension it and seat the knot, it it is going to fail it will fail now, then finish your half hitches and mono tag as you like. From mono to terminal tie a four turn centuari, but then as you take the tag back around from the last loop, take it through the eye of the clip/hook/swivel in the same direction as the original pass and then take it back and pass through the loops, shape the centuari correctly, moisten knot, grab and keep tag taught and pull knot tight from mainline side watching it at the same time to make sure it cinches up correctly. Pull the crap out of this so that it is seated and won't slip. Good to go. Importantly,make your mono leader long enough but keep your fg knot 6 inches below your stripper eye or above it and you won't get the wrapping knot with the braid, if the fg knot is near your finger or on your spool then you will get these knots ( aside from the other cause of windknots).

If you insist on braid leader to terminal you have a few options, remember that your braid mainline is at least half of your braid leaders breaking strength so any decent knots on the leader will actually do. This taking into account a 100% braid to braid connection, ie. stitch. One option is a 60 turn in lighter braid or 40-50 turn in heavier braid bimini. Take care to lay it all carefully and it is very close to but not 100%, then a simple loop over to a swivel is fine from here, the line or bimini will break before the loop does everytime ( I've destructively tested this connection many, many times.) One does not need a catspaw although it is stronger as a simple loop around, as in this case the bimini is the weak point but only just, below the leaderbraid which is the next weak point but actually the braid mainline is far weaker. A simple loop over is preferable sometimes to an offshore swivel knot like in this case as it is strong enough for purpose (not the weak point ) and can be unpicked and untied ready for looping over again and using again another time, many times over, so your terminal rig can be easily packed up after a fish and line wound back on the reel if you have to break your tackle down. So also in fact as a commercial mate showed me, when in a rush with braid, just a double overhand loop knot with a loop over is stronger than any knot with a double line or normal knot in braid (like uni or blood knot etc.. test it you will be surprised) and in the case as stated, strong enough as with a 100% braid to braid connection and 50lb to 80-120lb braid leader your mainline will pop everytime before the stitch does or a double overhand loop in leader looped to swivel does, they are both stronger than mainline. Just have a very weak sinker connection and be careful with heavy hook lines as with such strong leader connections you might pop the mainline close to your rod tip or where you have wrapped the line itself when busting off and this is expensive and leaves lots of braid behind and it pays to engineer weak points that are strong enough to pull fish as hard as you can but where you can still bust off where you want when you need to.

For powerful fish I recommended having a bit of a mono leader just to give a bit of stretch to prevent hooks pulling or working themselves free and to make it a little more forgiving on you. The stretch of the mono versus braid is a bonus for powerful unforgiving fish, a compromise helps.

Thanks for the opportunity to advise the great reefs! Thanks for all your guides over the years, here and on sealine, they helped me loads.

[Visenvryheid]

The above centuari knot, four turns and back through the eye and then through the loops comes from yellowtail specialists/legends from the E cape and has been used for decades for fish like cape town tuna by the guy that showed me. You can increase the loops for braid I guess and would work for the terminal connection as well for your heavier leader braid.. Your terminal knot just needs to be a bit stronger than your main line and be able to absorb some shoch without popping..

[REEFMAN]

When you say braid leader, I assume you have stitched in a leader to your 50lb?

Thanks for your interesting perspective on this...

My braid leader is stitched into a loop, but is joined to the mainline with a Modified CatsPaw. http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php?topic=15598.msg258040#msg258040
This I can do easily at the beach if necessary.
I'm fishing 40lb Sufix Pro x8 mainline, 80lb YGK Jigman Leader... on a 4-6oz rod.

Thanks for the opportunity to advise the great reefs! Thanks for all your guides over the years, here and on sealine, they helped me loads.

"Great"?!??    Nawt bud, you're confuzzed... but I'm glad to have helped out a little anyhow! 

[REEFMAN]

So I tried casting a full length 0.80 Tapered leader this weekend. Nowhere near as comfortable as the braid leader. The Mono memory coils are a little irritating coming off a fixed spool and going through the guides. I also had a snapoff mid cast in the mainline braid... nyeh... back to plan A = Braid leader direct to the Trace swivel.

[Marthin]

i cast braid off a multiplier... on my grinder the knot doesnt go into the eyes...

[Haroldg]

So I tried casting a full length 0.80 Tapered leader this weekend. Nowhere near as comfortable as the braid leader. The Mono memory coils are a little irritating coming off a fixed spool and going through the guides. I also had a snapoff mid cast in the mainline braid... nyeh... back to plan A = Braid leader direct to the Trace swivel.

I'm not surprised with the outcome Reefz - This has been my experience as well; just waited for confirmation from you. There are still two options worth experimenting with unless you've done so already or have had enough of experimenting....


(1.) Use a full length mono leader joined to the mainline braid with a FG knot BUT have the join a short distance outside the spool. This will be a better shock absorber and protect the first few metres of braid.


(2.) Use a full length braid leader as you currently do and a short mono leader outside the guides just for that extra bit of stretch when you need it most.


An unrelated question.... instead of going the grinder route would a small multiplier using braid on that rod of yours not have been a better option? - I know this topic has been covered to some extent elsewhere but keen for some additional feedback.