SEINE NETTERS AND CATCHERS

[Ziggy]

Ziggy i think it's ALL about credibility on any of the pages on this forum....  If you started a thread about Fishing for Tigerfish and just sucked things out of your thumb and sold them as facts, i would hope someone with some knowledge about the subject would say so....

Please go here http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php?topic=276.0 where it is clearly stated that UA's aim is to become the Ultimate South African Saltwater Angling Information Resource. The goal is not to become the biggest forum around, but rather to provide the most professional, highest quality Angling Info, while creating an environment where you can really feel like part of a family... meeting sincere new mates who share your passion!


This thread does not do this for me - that is what I am saying....

[RobinF]

Ziggy i think it's ALL about credibility on any of the pages on this forum....  If you started a thread about Fishing for Tigerfish and just sucked things out of your thumb and sold them as facts, i would hope someone with some knowledge about the subject would say so....

I could learn so much and am willing to learn if what I have been told was actually shown to be incorrect with proof. I am not perfect, but silly hollow accusations only hurt your credibility. Unless someone shows me where anything I put up here is wrong, how am I supposed to know? So far I am yet to see any proof to the contrary.

Instead of showing me where I am wrong, I get mud slung and accused. Just show me where I have gone wrong in my facts.

Respect is not just a 7 letter word Marthin.

[Reaper]

This thread is teaching me nothing about my favourite past time. Yes, its always good to debate ethics and conservation - however, this thread is mainly about the scoring of points. Of course the issue of who is credible or not is continually raised.


I did a comparison of the main contributors to this thread namely Robin F and jb2 to check their "UA participation credibility" - and it is interesting what comes out.


Robin contributes across the forums and has made some great posts that are intersting. However jb2 has only contributed to 4 threads - and mostly in a non-collegial manner.


Robin F - total of 274 posts (150 re the seine netters)
jb2 - total of 88 posts (75 in the seine netters


Robin has 20 creds - and jb2 has zero


So, I am wondering what jb2 is doing on this forum really - his motivation is clearly not about advancing our angling knowledge


Look at the posts made by both of them (number of posts and nae of post)


RobinF has contributed to my knowledge of fishing and engages with UA "nice nice":

• 150 Seinne netters and catchers
• 21 Knysna Estuary
• 9 Beautiful Knysna
• 8 Seine Netters at Strandfontein and how  they beat the Law
• 7 Christiaan Brits banned for life
• 7 Banning the removal of Sandvlei fish
• 7 Knysna - Watch this space.
• 5 Ezemvelo meet Concerned Parties  Regarding Vetches Seinne Netting
• 4 Fishfinder
• 4 Kalk bay area
• 3 Super Bru - Super 15
• 3 Guidelines on how to catch and release
• 3 Rough beach launch at Vaal
• 3 My new baby
• 2 Whats on your boat - safety equipment
• 2 Lucky draw
• 2 KZN offshore
• 2 Help ID this ray
• 2 Stumpie
• 2 Did he really call his boat this?
• 2 I Will NEVER Keep A Saltwater Fish  Ever Again
• 2 UA anglers of the futre
• 1 tony re jess
• 1 last rhinos killed
• 1 New clothing orders
• 1 Rattler lures
• 1 attacking a spear fisherman
• 1 why I don’t surf
• 1 Hydrowave
• 1 Armed robbery
• 1 R+S reports E Cape
• 1 Fishing for Garrick using artificial  fish
• 1 Camo good for SANDF
• 1 SOME OF THE RECENT FISH ON THE GO FISH  TRIPS
• 1 RIP Caleb
• 1 Engine trouble
• 1 ORI taggers
• 1 Fishing licence?
• 1 UA hits 4000
• 1 Boat insurance
• 1 Southern cape revistied
• 1 Light tackle lure fishing for these  locations
• 1 Red Steenbraas
• 1 Catch and photo release
• 1 what engines would you choose
• 1 Please be careful guys

jb2 (not one of the posts has contributed to my knowledge of fishing):

	75 Seine  netters and catchers 2 Small  scale fishing community areas 5 May I call  for a boycott 6 Christiaan  Brits banned for life

  ......Can there be a post of the month? If so, this is it.

[Toppie]

Good analysis and comparison Ziggy!

[Ziggy]

Good analysis and comparison Ziggy!

It took me time to do this - but I am so miffed by the BS on this thread that I thought someone had to say something


Toppie remember my PM from a while ago?

[Marthin]

Robin when i show you you are wrong i'm being trivial.... there is more than ample proof you have been to eager to jump the gun before checking facts on a number of occasions or using a bit too much artistic freedom when stating something as fact.

You have a cause that many will follow blindly.... i won't, but it doesnt mean i don't think that what is happing is wrong.

Ziggy you nailed it....The goal is not to become the biggest forum around, but rather to provide the most professional, highest quality Angling Info, the last part here is what i mean.... Robin has often enough given info as fact, when it is everything EXCEPT quality or accurate info.

He is eroding the moral high ground that recreationals could have.  1stly by blindly believing treknetters are all from the devil and should be burnt at the stake, and secondly by ignoring the fact that recreationals and other factors also have a massive influence.

All that will happen is should a matter like this end in court where it's "US vs Them" scenario one day, what Collin Atwood (probably the most respected scientist in the industry) has said and was quoted in the paper will testify same.  Take it into account or we will lose.

The problem here is effective policing en klaar.  There should be enough DAFF people to check what is going on, not only there but at Kalkbay harbour wall, Strand and Gordon'sbay jetty and a number of other places.

[Ziggy]

Now i am really getting gatvol - this thread is a broken record!


My suggestion is that jb2, RobinF and Marthin  - who all live in CT it seems - should just get together and sort out the  issues that they have  and then come back with a collective and reasoned report about this whole netting thing! In this way. maybe we can LEARN something and ADVANCE our fishing knowledge


Enough is enough!

[jb2]

This thread is teaching me nothing about my favourite past time. Yes, its always good to debate ethics and conservation - however, this thread is mainly about the scoring of points. Of course the issue of who is credible or not is continually raised.


I did a comparison of the main contributors to this thread namely Robin F and jb2 to check their "UA participation credibility" - and it is interesting what comes out.


Robin contributes across the forums and has made some great posts that are intersting. However jb2 has only contributed to 4 threads - and mostly in a non-collegial manner.


Robin F - total of 274 posts (150 re the seine netters)
jb2 - total of 88 posts (75 in the seine netters


Robin has 20 creds - and jb2 has zero


So, I am wondering what jb2 is doing on this forum really - his motivation is clearly not about advancing our angling knowledge


Look at the posts made by both of them (number of posts and nae of post)


RobinF has contributed to my knowledge of fishing and engages with UA "nice nice":

• 150 Seinne netters and catchers
• 21 Knysna Estuary
• 9 Beautiful Knysna
• 8 Seine Netters at Strandfontein and how  they beat the Law
• 7 Christiaan Brits banned for life
• 7 Banning the removal of Sandvlei fish
• 7 Knysna - Watch this space.
• 5 Ezemvelo meet Concerned Parties  Regarding Vetches Seinne Netting
• 4 Fishfinder
• 4 Kalk bay area
• 3 Super Bru - Super 15
• 3 Guidelines on how to catch and release
• 3 Rough beach launch at Vaal
• 3 My new baby
• 2 Whats on your boat - safety equipment
• 2 Lucky draw
• 2 KZN offshore
• 2 Help ID this ray
• 2 Stumpie
• 2 Did he really call his boat this?
• 2 I Will NEVER Keep A Saltwater Fish  Ever Again
• 2 UA anglers of the futre
• 1 tony re jess
• 1 last rhinos killed
• 1 New clothing orders
• 1 Rattler lures
• 1 attacking a spear fisherman
• 1 why I don’t surf
• 1 Hydrowave
• 1 Armed robbery
• 1 R+S reports E Cape
• 1 Fishing for Garrick using artificial  fish
• 1 Camo good for SANDF
• 1 SOME OF THE RECENT FISH ON THE GO FISH  TRIPS
• 1 RIP Caleb
• 1 Engine trouble
• 1 ORI taggers
• 1 Fishing licence?
• 1 UA hits 4000
• 1 Boat insurance
• 1 Southern cape revistied
• 1 Light tackle lure fishing for these  locations
• 1 Red Steenbraas
• 1 Catch and photo release
• 1 what engines would you choose
• 1 Please be careful guys

jb2 (not one of the posts has contributed to my knowledge of fishing):

	75 Seine  netters and catchers 2 Small  scale fishing community areas 5 May I call  for a boycott 6 Christiaan  Brits banned for life

Hi Ziggy
You are spot on. I don't come onto the forum that often.
Its kind of how things work out. I do follow treknetting threads though.
But there is no connection between what I have posted and how accurate my information is.
It was Robin who approached me on Sealine a few months ago to try and figure out who was who and who did what.
I explained to him what colour the different boats are and who drives what bakkies and how he can get himself started. He hadn't been to many treks and was not familiar with how they operated and the best way to help people to understand it is to give them the info that they need to try and learn.
I have been hanging out at Kalk Bay since I was about 15 in the mid '80s and I have been following the regulation of treknetting since 1999.
There is an expression in Northern Ireland that states that the man who says that he knows what is going on has only been in the country for 2 weeks.
Trekking is a bit the same.
I also hear things through the commercial fishing grapevine and that is how I get much of my info.
So the stats are interesting but don't make me right or wrong. (The comparison is called a "category error").
It works like this "jb2 is less believable because he has posted less." But posting on other topics and posting on a particular topic are not really tests of probability.
Not having posted on one forum is more likely to be a factor that my posts might be more on another forum for example. But does not help us to understand me or my posts.
 
Have a look at the wiki.  on category errors.   
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_mistake
   
 
 

[RobinF]

Robin when i show you you are wrong i'm being trivial.... there is more than ample proof you have been to eager to jump the gun before checking facts on a number of occasions or using a bit too much artistic freedom when stating something as fact.

You have a cause that many will follow blindly.... i won't, but it doesnt mean i don't think that what is happing is wrong.

Ziggy you nailed it....The goal is not to become the biggest forum around, but rather to provide the most professional, highest quality Angling Info, the last part here is what i mean.... Robin has often enough given info as fact, when it is everything EXCEPT quality or accurate info.

He is eroding the moral high ground that recreationals could have.  1stly by blindly believing treknetters are all from the devil and should be burnt at the stake, and secondly by ignoring the fact that recreationals and other factors also have a massive influence.

This post is hollow if you cannot correct my postings with facts. Your post here is implying that I am a trouble maker, that I am somehow being malicious? How am I supposed to adjust my info when all I get is non-factual banter from you and JB2? What you actually are saying is that I must prove everything. And anything that i post until I prove it, is false. If this was the case then we must accuse everyone of false posts. This, I will never do, I respect everyone here and unless I can show them that something they posted is incorrect, I'll rather keep quiet. 

The sad thing is when I did post the photo's which are pretty damning, all you could say was that I got the Strandfontein/Macassar name wrong. Really?

For the record, I have never said that the seine netters are from the Devil and should be burned at the stake Marthin, please get your facts straight. You need to refrain from putting words in my mouth please.

[RobinF]

JB2 is correct on this - that I contacted him. He seemed to be pro seine netting and I was inclined to be against the seine netting practice. So I did my research, I asked him to enlighten me, to make an unbiased conclussion. Help me to know the truth if you will. After considerable research, I found that the seine netters as a whole transgress the law a lot. I have made suggestions that these guys should have a governing board of sorts to manage the image of this type of fishing. That they should be held accountable as a whole not just as individuals...That's just the start.

No, I have not been on this ground for two weeks, actually it's been a while, and yet it feels like ages when I think of all the destruction that I have seen by these guys.

[Reaper]

Again I must ask why JB2 and his buddy Marthin cannot post without dragging RobinF into it. How much discrediting can a couple of okes attempt on one person?

Trouble-makers. Nothing less.

[Ziggy]

it just does not stop!


I think its time for admin to come in and clean up this mess - it is the worst thread I have ever seen on UA

[RobinF]

I'm out. I'll re-post when I have some other developments around this topic. Cheers guys.

[jb2]

JB2 is correct on this - that I contacted him. He seemed to be pro seine netting and I was inclined to be against the seine netting practice. So I did my research, I asked him to enlighten me, to make an unbiased conclussion. Help me to know the truth if you will. After considerable research, I found that the seine netters as a whole transgress the law a lot. I have made suggestions that these guys should have a governing board of sorts to manage the image of this type of fishing. That they should be held accountable as a whole not just as individuals...That's just the start.

No, I have not been on this ground for two weeks, actually it's been a while, and yet it feels like ages when I think of all the destruction that I have seen by these guys.

Hi Robin
The governing body seems like an interesting suggestion. I suppose some type of association?
That could allow them to meet with DAFF and talk things through?
 

[jb2]

This thread is teaching me nothing about my favourite past time. Yes, its always good to debate ethics and conservation - however, this thread is mainly about the scoring of points. Of course the issue of who is credible or not is continually raised.


I did a comparison of the main contributors to this thread namely Robin F and jb2 to check their "UA participation credibility" - and it is interesting what comes out.


Robin contributes across the forums and has made some great posts that are intersting. However jb2 has only contributed to 4 threads - and mostly in a non-collegial manner.


Robin F - total of 274 posts (150 re the seine netters)
jb2 - total of 88 posts (75 in the seine netters


Robin has 20 creds - and jb2 has zero


So, I am wondering what jb2 is doing on this forum really - his motivation is clearly not about advancing our angling knowledge


Look at the posts made by both of them (number of posts and nae of post)


RobinF has contributed to my knowledge of fishing and engages with UA "nice nice":

• 150 Seinne netters and catchers
• 21 Knysna Estuary
• 9 Beautiful Knysna
• 8 Seine Netters at Strandfontein and how  they beat the Law
• 7 Christiaan Brits banned for life
• 7 Banning the removal of Sandvlei fish
• 7 Knysna - Watch this space.
• 5 Ezemvelo meet Concerned Parties  Regarding Vetches Seinne Netting
• 4 Fishfinder
• 4 Kalk bay area
• 3 Super Bru - Super 15
• 3 Guidelines on how to catch and release
• 3 Rough beach launch at Vaal
• 3 My new baby
• 2 Whats on your boat - safety equipment
• 2 Lucky draw
• 2 KZN offshore
• 2 Help ID this ray
• 2 Stumpie
• 2 Did he really call his boat this?
• 2 I Will NEVER Keep A Saltwater Fish  Ever Again
• 2 UA anglers of the futre
• 1 tony re jess
• 1 last rhinos killed
• 1 New clothing orders
• 1 Rattler lures
• 1 attacking a spear fisherman
• 1 why I don’t surf
• 1 Hydrowave
• 1 Armed robbery
• 1 R+S reports E Cape
• 1 Fishing for Garrick using artificial  fish
• 1 Camo good for SANDF
• 1 SOME OF THE RECENT FISH ON THE GO FISH  TRIPS
• 1 RIP Caleb
• 1 Engine trouble
• 1 ORI taggers
• 1 Fishing licence?
• 1 UA hits 4000
• 1 Boat insurance
• 1 Southern cape revistied
• 1 Light tackle lure fishing for these  locations
• 1 Red Steenbraas
• 1 Catch and photo release
• 1 what engines would you choose
• 1 Please be careful guys

jb2 (not one of the posts has contributed to my knowledge of fishing):

	75 Seine  netters and catchers 2 Small  scale fishing community areas 5 May I call  for a boycott 6 Christiaan  Brits banned for life

  ......Can there be a post of the month? If so, this is it.

Hi Reaper
 
I understand the sentiment but it leads to a weird anomaly.
I have 2 218 posts on another forum ranging from trekking to fishing reel repair to catching kreef to estuary fishing and Robin has 176 on that forum.
Does that mean that I am more credible on Sealine than on UA? It must.
Let's leave this type of silliness alone.

[SUPER ADMIN]

 If you would like to make a post on this subject that would add value, feel free to contact admin. Until then, this thread is locked/suspended.