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FRESHWATER ANGLING => Carp Fishing => Topic started by: Kwade on May 15, 2020, 02:28:19 PM
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Hi guys
So I was wondering how to approach a certain dam that has lots of massive carp, but they not always on the bite... The dam has crystal clear water, is virtually completely encircled with reeds and has lots of submerged aquatic vegetation... the main thing is the bottom of the dam is rocky BUT its got a soft layer of decaying plant material covering it (like a mulch layer), one day I noticed the reason the carp don't always bite is because the boilie or pop-up disappears in the layer once it hits it (probably because the sinker stirs it up on impact)... I fish a sliding sinker and just made my hook-link longer to get the bait further from the sinker and I've also tried using 2 pop-ups on the hair which is enough to keep the hook suspended in the water (anchored by the sinker still)... I've thought about float fishing but I don't want to have to reel in everytime it drifts and the water is between 2-2.5m deep so I will end up with long rig between the float and hook... So how would you guys approach it? Is there a better way?
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A chod rig will work better for this type of structure, the presentation will be better, then catty or spod some feed over the top of the rig, you can also look at zig rigs
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OK I'll give it a go, what bait do you suggest? Boilie or popup or a snowman of both? Or something else?
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Pop - up and you can glug it a bit before use, goodluck
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I fished in long past on small dam’s that was not fished before . Carp does not know what is boilie and you be better with corn or even with worm . I preferred float fishing close to reeds on dams like this . Get inside and clear out 1m wide entry to water . Make sure corn lies on the silty bottom - float is angled or lies flat . They don’t touch it if above bottom ( that was in our case ) Like that it won’t drift much.
But it was tough fishing on those dams till we figure out that they feed only after sunset till around 23h . During the day they did not want to touch any bait . With illuminating float , it was actual fun catching them at night but yes , lost many to the reeds . P.S. Throw few Oatees on surface and watch if they come to swallow it. Good luck !
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Thanks jonathan I'll give your advise a go when I'm there again (probably Thurs :-) ) then I'll post how it went... Drago what you say makes sense, I've actually caught carp on fake mielies there, but not boilies, but then again its nota small dam I'm fishing, its popular amongst bass fishermen only (surprisingly because its got some of the most beautiful carp I've seen, I've never seen smaller than 6kg being pulled out ) I've considered the float fishing with the bait on the ground but that means I'll need a 2-2.5m leader between float and hook, I dunno if I'll be able to cast that nicely ... But I'll give it ago too, and post how it goes ,maybe drop my line with the float on...
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I took the advice of Drago and used mielies on my hair rig on my 1 rod and its proved successful so far pulled a 7.5kg carp out now... :carp: good advice thanks
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It may also be worth trying to clear A small area for your bait presentation if you are allowed to. If you use A choddy just remember (depending on the silt depth) to give the hooklink enough space to move up the leader while on its way down. I just put a peace of putty on the leader where I want the hooklink to stop. Try some "lighter" feed like pellets or even normal mieliebom as well. But I see you are getting success with mielies so stick with what works. (clap)
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Thanks Kosie yes I used normal mielie bomb as feed last night and it worked, the rod with the pop ups had a run too and the mielies had another run otherwise it was only the 1 fish caught... How would you clear a small area for the bait?
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I suppose its too cold now to just dive in :diving: , some guys use A long pole or rope with A rake/anchor type head, I suppose your imagination is the limit. Some guys put A flat surface of their own on the bottom to present their trap. Just make sure its within the rules of the venue and that it is not something that can harm the fish and that you remove it when done.
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Thanks I'll give it a go... But after spending some time on the water I noticed a few open spots and the "mulch layer" is thinner than I initially thought so I might not need to make a spot but in summer I think I'll dive in and open it up a bit more... I know of another venue that has that soft silt on the bottom, about 0.5 - 1m thick under about 3m of water and the area is always full of fish... I've tried a boilie with only a hook no sinker or swivel but no luck and I've tried floaties with a 1.2m hook link and sliding sinker but also no luck any thoughts on this?
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A zig will probably do you best in .5-1m of silt. Dont underestimate A float setup with worms aswell.
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As a Kosie said , don’t underestimate worm on the float . You would be surprised what fish you can get on the worm. Even a grassie ... When it comes to bait , I am one of those that does not carry box with 100’s of different dips , milies & floaties .Learned long ago that there are 3 main attractants that can really make a difference. Vanilla , Garlic and Peanut.
When water temperature gets below 16C start using crushed garlic as a add on in your ground feed and in this case you could use spring feeder without any lead as for soft silt . Add only a one flat tea spoon on 1kg of already mixed ground feed.
Or try this - if you can get those bronze and silver tiny soft floaties ( I think is magic bait brand - comes in very small glass jar) Silver is garlic . Add two of those floaties directly on the hook while you have few milies on the hair . These floaties shown to be very effective and helped us on tough days on Vaal River when was hardly any bites as for water being only 11C .
While in warmer waters adding fine grounded roasted peanut to a ground feed decreased the bite intervals noticeably.
When it comes to milies , blue train is only one I use ( if shop did not have , plain - throw 1/2 water out and add some alcohol like vodka ) proven that alcohol helps to spread the flavor quicker.
In long past I use to use a certain coughing syrup as a dip in extremely cold waters that made me catch fish while rest was blanking (not in SA) , but that was like 40 years ago , I wonder will this work on SA waters....While I tried TCP at Vaal but made no success with it. I hope this helps ,
[size=78%]but every fishing venue is different - try and you will eventually find out what and when it works taking that weather and temp is absolutely crucial with Carp fishing while type of bait and presentation would be second . [/size]
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Yes I'm well aware of how good earthworms are, they are a personal favorite of mine, the only issue I have with them is although you can literally catch any fish on them, the fish you usually end up catching is small barbel (which I don't mind until I've caught the 10th for the night all below 5kg and no other species I'm sure everyone knows the feeling )... I'm also not a guy with a buffet of dips... Dips I can't go without is garlic, banana, FX and pineapple but like you say different waters produce different results with different flavors, like the dam I initially asked about in this post where almond and vanilla essence seem to produce better results... How do you determine what flavours to use based on the weather and temp? I've often questioned the ability of flavours to attract fish, I think their ability to draw fish is limited, you need a bit of feed in the area (a mielie bomb is sufficient) to catch the fishes attention, and draw him in... Carp and flavours is kinda like bass and colours in my opinion ... I dunno if I'm right but it just seems that way to me?
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To answer you on weather and Carp . We noticed on days with overcast - lower barometric pressure , we had more bites also 1 hour ahead of rain we had bite after bite to completely stop once rain came down . Wind direction was also important , as soon we come to venue and if wind was coming from certain direction we know - we having a good day . Next time at same venue wind started in different direction and was slow bites ( that is when we try few different add on flavors) till later in day just after 15h when wind changed direction and we were on the bite regardless much what we put on hook. During summer only sweet flavors ( in my case vanilla ) - winter garlic . In summer you can feed place with 40-50kg of cooked miles and you will catch a lot next day - unless there are lot of grassies that will polish all milies in no time.In that case try cow block , winter no feeding only what is on the feeder is enough.
But then..... that day came where you discover a place where all that feeding and constant experimenting while slow or no bites is not needed any longer... After many years of fishing different venues we settled at the private place that is 275km from Midrand JHB - app 20km after Bothaville on the way to Leeudoringstad . Place was at Vaal River and it was 2km from larger overflow.At that place even on bad days we caught decent amount of fish,. You cannot chose what day looks good to go fishing as for work - we could only go weekends and this place was answer as we always had fun and caught lot of fish .
But most what drove us there again and again was the Carp that fights like Yellow fish and it will scream your reel like you have a Wahoo on it .Barble also fights with amazing stamina even when water was very cold . Water is always full of oxygen due to overflow where huge amount of water drops 2 m down splashing and making foam and noise and that makes unbelievable difference - fish are very active and also throughout the year . We pulled at that place barbles over 20 kg , Grassies in between 10 - 20kg ( from Kayak mainly ) . Biggest Carp was 12kg. Once you discover place like that all other venues becomes past despite lot higher costs involved . I use to drift with kayak with live smaller grassie that was bouncing of bottom and hooking a monster barbel from kayak is one of a kind experience . Same with Grassies , once hyacinth starts to flow - Grassies come up in numbers . Hooking a large strong grassie from kayak was a pinnacle for me as fights use to last between 10-20min on a very light tackle. Then fishing for carp from a boat house and bank became pretty boring for me.
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I am also not too worried about flavour names. The flavours in dips are 99% synthetic anyways, it only smells like pineapple to us, not to carp. Carp actually only smells or tastes sweet, salt and strong in flavours. This is what helps in all those dips, the salts/sugars. That is why I make my own dip, because all those different dips are exactly the same, just the salt/sugar/oil contents that differs. When it comes to water temp I would think it better to use less oils or more soluble oils at least. The waters in SA rarely gets cold enough to influence flavours in my opinion. I think the wind will have A bigger influence then temp. Also the colour of the dip (fluoro) might have an influence, but I tend to stay away from high attract colours theses days for targeting realy big carp.
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This is the spot
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When it comes to weather I see most people like to change baits, feed, flavours but to target the same area, this might help, but I think it much better to change the location of your bait accordingly (if possible obviously). But you can achieve big success just by moving your bait to another area/depth/structure ect instead changing everything.
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Sorry I meen instead of cahnging too many things bait/rig/flavour wise.
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Sorry to go off topic..but good posts drago, that last bouncing the grassie on the bottom and...LOL had the salty in the drooling..sounds epic! I hooked those big grassies and barbel as a kid in germiston lake and had all sorts of fun! I had never even considered a livie then! But ja back to carp..Im always a fan of good old canned mielies..tried every trick as a youngster but never had the success I did on loads of canned koo..And ja earthworms and barbel..they can't resist them.
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As a youngster I remember using sweet corn and mielie pap with lots of success, I still make pap now and then for fishing sometimes it works and other times it doesn't ... Funny enough I've caught a 8kg mirror carp with chicken hearts fishing for barbel, I've caught bass with both mielies and pop ups (whilst reeling in) and I've caught a barbel that took my bass I was reeling in and a bass with a small live kurper in its mouth haha that actually happened in the beginning on this lockdown
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Yea we are sometimes quick to forget old "secret" baits. The heaviest bag I ever caught in my life (carp and cats between 4kg and 9kg) was with normal pap mixed with kingkorn for bom and I used brown bread mixed with maroek as bait. I was still just doing papgooi at that stage. Plus this was in the Vaal river!. I did put A block of rumavite in my swim the previous day though. Didnt count or weigh all the fish but it is still the most successfull session I ever had when it comes to pure volume/size. Just saying my best session ever was with mielie pap/kingkorn mix and brownbread/maroek mix. I have been making my own boilies for A while now, and I am obviously still learning, but even with todays popular baits I am struggling to recreate the overall success I had with old/traditional baits. Yes I have cought some bigger indv specimens in recent years but I wont hesitate to say that it is purely because of better tactics, not better bait.
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We seem to evolved so much with tackle and especially with baits over the years . In olden days (70’s) I use to carry two small telescopic rods and ruksak on my back and I would jump in public transport and in 1 hr I will be at the river bank ( not SA ). Now it takes me 4-5 times to offload 4x4 .
But what is fascinating is at some takle shops like Westen accessories - how much carp bait, dips , and all other things they have on shelves. You are right - all flavors are chemicals . I have seen like twenty of 20L drums of all sorts of flavors inside courier truck going to Supercast . There must be huge sales going on.
Going back to live bait , Barble developed taste for small grassies , we catch them in shallow on the float and using green fluorescien floaties . Then jump in kayak with Talvalera spinning rod and grinder , circle hook and small ball sinker in-line . Then I would pedal 1km up steam , stop , hook grassie , drop to bottom and then pull up meter up and meter down like jigging while drifting . Then does not take long - bang - he is on and it won’t let me move him a inch from the bottom, then you know it’s a big boy . Wrestling can last for very long and that fight cannot be compared to fighting from the bank . You have to try to see how much fun this can be . Catching huge grassie from kayak is even more fun . Lot harder and can only be done during hyacinth time . It’s a game of patience .
They are easy spooked. I would use light rod with 15lb line . Only long shank hook and swivel . I would fold hyacinth leave and push it 3 times through the hook and finish it with two milies . Then I would use tooth pick to secure swivel to a bulb of hyacinth bush . Making sure that hook is 10-15cm below roots. Slowly put it back in water to drift with other hyacinth . Then distance myself on kayak for about 10m backwards . Then just keep myself motionless , I put pedal inside kayak and steer with hands close to kayak . Drift goes on , you will eventually see them coming close , you can notice when they pull hyacinth under water to get to leaves . Then evetally my trapped hycunt takes a dive . Then I get andrenalin rush and put slight drag on a reel . Usually grassie is not aware he is hooked , but as soon you tight more drag and bring him closer . Then I get second andrenalin rush when I see the size of fish . Then he spots you ... then hell brakes and he goes for long fast run with screaming grinder . And fight goes on for long , as soon you bring him close to kayak , he goes again and again and in most cases it gives you good 20 runs . It’s a hectic time as you turning in all directions with paddling with one hand while holding rod with other . All for trying to avoid line hooking other hycunt bushes that surrounds you. Then you eventually pull kayak out of hycunt to the other side of river where fight continues in obstacle clear water . First 2 runs are very long and do not try to stop him ... those are moments when takle does fail.
You have to try to appreciate this kind of fishing . Not doing it anymore as my back kills me from sitting for hours on kayak .
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My biggest bag came on pap and sweetcorn me and my dad caught 40 fish between 18:00 to 08:00 at klipdrift dam about 20years ago but all small carp (under 2kg), back then it was all papgooi, I don't think specimen angling existed that time, I still do the papgooi thing sometimes (like if I go to klipdrift dam) and I do the specimen thing (which I actually enjoy more) at other venues where there's lots of vegetation and for new venues I try a bit of both to see what works, but I'll never be regarded as a specimen angler because I like targeting more than one species when fishing (I usually aim for 3 - usually carp, barbel and bass or kurper / in the vaal the 3rd is either yellows or muddies and I love catching surprises like rock catfish etc... I've tried making boilies and failed miserably haha but I tend to prefer pop ups and critically balanced tigernuts over boilies, like that bit of suspension above the floor is a big positive in my opinion...
Your right drago you can't compare catching a barbel from a boat to catching 1 from the side (I've never caught of a kayak but I can imagine what a fight that is) ... Grass carp is fish that's hidden from me my entire fishing career (only about a year 20years ago and then the last 2years I'd say so not that long) but I've never caught one, and it is on my bucket list, I've managed tench in a local dam, they pretty decent fish to catch actually, and I wasn't targeting it (because I didn't even know they were in the dam, I was targeting kurper with a float and worm) and I've caught a massive fantail goldfish in the same dam using the same technique
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Technically that goldfish is also carp! :fshn:
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Not really no, I think you're confusing goldfish with koi, goldfish are a completely different species (Carassius auratus) from carps (Cyprinus spp.) the closest they get is being in the same sub family, but so are Labeobarbus (yellowfish), goldfish are closely rated to Cruassian carp (Carassius carassius)... Koi on the otherhand are domesticated common carp (Cyprinus Carpio) , so they are as much a carp as a mirror carp or leather carp or common carp (they all the same species) just different appearances (regarding their scale patterns and colours only) but a goldfish is about as much a carp as a largemouth yellow fish is...
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Wow you learn something new everyday! I always thought they were fancy forms of carp like koi..gonna have to do some reading now..
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Haha funny enough I always thought koi were their own species too... Only to find out a couple of months ago that they are in fact just common carp and surprisingly they loose their colour in the wild (as do goldfish) I once read that goldfish could be found in over 50% of our freshwater systems in South Africa, they just don't get caught by anglers and don't get recognized either because they lose their colors after a few years (the fan tail I caught was orange and white though) but it must have been a recently released fish because only the plain normal goldfish survives in the wild, the fancier ones like fantail and hammerhead etc don't usually last longer than a week once released
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Not really no, I think you're confusing goldfish with koi, goldfish are a completely different species (Carassius auratus) from carps (Cyprinus spp.) the closest they get is being in the same sub family, but so are Labeobarbus (yellowfish), goldfish are closely rated to Cruassian carp (Carassius carassius)... Koi on the otherhand are domesticated common carp (Cyprinus Carpio) , so they are as much a carp as a mirror carp or leather carp or common carp (they all the same species) just different appearances (regarding their scale patterns and colours only) but a goldfish is about as much a carp as a largemouth yellow fish is...
yes, I knew Khoi to be part of the carp family, so associated gold fish with it as well.
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I think it's a common misconception ppl make abut the 2, but it makes complete sense if you think of it, since goldfish don't get nearly as big as carp... I've noticed some places like aqua paradiso and some other syndicate specimen farm dams producing some massive full coloured koi in more recently I think that would be nice fish to brag about catching
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I think it's a common misconception ppl make abut the 2, but it makes complete sense if you think of it, since goldfish don't get nearly as big as carp... I've noticed some places like aqua paradiso and some other syndicate specimen farm dams producing some massive full coloured koi in more recently I think that would be nice fish to brag about catching
The Misses caught one of the AP koi's when we where there one time. Unfortunately lost all the good photos except this one. There some nice Koi there.
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Nice man!! :cgrts:
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Wow that's a nice size koi, do you know how long the koi have been in there? Too bad you need to be a member to fish at AP because I've heard a lot of good things about the place and it looks nice from the pics I've seen... And I would probably only get a opportunity once a year to go there so to pay a membership is gonna be a waste for me to
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Unfortunately I dont know how long the Koi have been in AP. It is indeed A very nice venue with awesome members. Only reason I didn't renew is because its an old quarry so you only have limited margins/areas to target. That in itself is not A problem of course but the venue caters for bass anglers as well and that is the problem. Because the bass anglers target the exact same margins as you do for bass. Now the water there is crystal clear, so imagine bass angler kickboats up and down most of the day a meter or 2 right on top of your bait? You just have no chance whatsoever. Its of course not the bass anglers fault as they are allowed to be there and fish there, they are actually very nice oaks. If you didnt have to pay for the swim you book it may be ok for some, but in my mind if I pay to book A swim it means I and I alone can fish there, but that is not the case at AP as all the bass anglers can fish in all the carp anglers swims as much as they wish. Like I say you MIGHT have 5 different bass anglers in your swim during the day. I went there A couple of times but the only time I could manage to catch something was when there, by luck, were no bass anglers, that was only twice in all my sessions there. Its just not worth the effort and money in opinion. If they stop bass angling there I will join again the same day, but not before.
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Well I have a very nice spot where I catch carp, about 20min drive from my house... Its open to public because the one side is owned by the department of water but it doesn't allow much angling because apart from about 5 x 20m wide openings the dam is completely surrounded with reeds, the spot I fish is 1 of those swims on the opposite side of the dam on private property (the dam is irregular in shape so hard to explain but the spot is very secluded not even the boat guys venture that far) the water is crystal clear up to 3m visibility is the norm, as the dam is spring fed, 3 main springs account for 2 inlets (1 of which is by my spot) and at least 15 seasonal springs (1 right by my spot flows about 9months of the year), most guys that fish the dam target bass... And it's free for me to use when I want
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Sounds great!
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Not always haha... to me the carp are very tempermental in the dam, I can go from catching 5x 20lbs+ fish in one night to blanking the next night (in the same week, I never stay longer than a night at a time, if I do go for two nights after each other it usually involves me coming back in the morning then returning in evening - to work) in fact I've even gone carpless for 6 weeks after a good session involving 2x 30lb carp... fortunately I never blank completely, I usually do well with the bass and I consider the small barbel (sub 5kg) a nuisance in summer... Have hooked up on my pb SM yellowfish in the dam and have caught muddies (L.capensis), kurper (vlei and dwarf) and big barbs (straight-fin and three-spot and by big I mean 150mm or so)... But I think I'm starting to figure the carp out slowly but surely (Its a timely process since I'm learning via trial and error so I only get one maybe two shots at it per week, but I think (rather I hope) I've completed the uphill stage since I've been getting more action of late (empty runs, catching and losing carp) but I think maybe the absence of the pesky small barbel now in winter is aiding me a bit...
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As Drago said I should try float fishing and I gave it a go... I left the float to slide and used a normal hair rig with sliding sinker (actually mielie bomb)and threw it about 5m away in about 1.5-1.8m water and pulled out a 12kg within 5min, had some more luck with fish around 4kg too using the same method.... something interesting I've heard to use mielie bomb in winter is a no go because the fish feed less in winter etc... but since we started using bombs instead of sinkers the fish have constantly been on the bite...
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Great fishing! Yes I reckon it is much better to rather spend 3 years learning one venue then it is to hop around from venue to venue. When it comes to "winter" we must always keep in mind that most of the "advise" going around is actually just marketing from different companies using there frontmen. Winter in SA is not winter in Europe. Yes keep an eye on the water temp if you can, doesnt help if cant get all the temperatures in all depths though. People tend to make the mistake of thinking the water temp changes the same way it does outside, which it obviously doesnt. Yes we have winter in SA but very few people actually know when it is "winter" inside the dam. One has to go into the details of everything. Doesnt really help to say "winter this and summer that". You have stumbled on an effective feeding strat for winter, and like you said, most will advise against it. It is because most dont go into all the little details so they dont realy know, they just say what others say. I like to think that there is no right or wrong but only that what works and that which doesnt. I like the way you think.
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What you're saying is very true, those guys in Europe are catching fish in ice cold water, then it makes sense that the fish move slower and try conserve energy... but I've recently stood in -2°C? so cold when I reeled, in the water that runs off the line when it passes through my rods eyes froze so I had to stop and break the ice out the eyes first before feeling further.. meanwhile in the water in front of me 2 carp were feeding as usual and darted off when I picked up my rod... something important to remember is that the conditions outside the water only effect the top layer of water, below that is usually the thermocline and below that is a layer of water that's more or less constant throughout the year (correct me if I'm wrong)... and anyway the "don't overfeed " in winter might make sense in a Olympic swimming pool size pond or so but in a proper dam the fish populations go well into the tens of thousands (size of dam dependent of course) but it makes more sense that the fish will go where others are feeding in the colder water because they know there's food so they can save some energy (I actually only realized that today )... I love exploring, finding new features in a dam always intrigues me... usually I say "by the end if the year i want to know exactly where to find the big fish and where the best spots are to catch which species" in certain dam or stretch of river etc... some trips I spend more time exploring the water than fishing, I have 2 dams I regularly visit and I've learned quite a bit about both so far... I think it's much better this way than scooting from dam to dam every weekend and at the end of the day you've been to 30 different dams and haven't really spent enough time at either to figure it out or enough time there after figuring it out to have some fun (unless you go with someone who knows the dam very well, that's a different story)
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Very true, watercraft and feeding is the most important, if you do that correctly you can do one session a year and catch more bigger carp in A day then most anglers do in their life times, it is better to do 2 or 3 sessions in your swim withour rods learning whats infront of you then 6 sessions not knowing. Unfortunately only rich retired guys can do that properly! Or if that is your job and your sponsored. We have all heard this, but its true, you have to think like a fish. Then external factors like weather ect just changes from being challenges to being logical decisions.
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Yea I think lots of ppl out there still fish thinking they must just throw some feed and cast over it, which to be fair probably works 70% of the time but I'm too competitive to settle for a 70% success rate, so I like to learn the ins and outs of a venue and I enjoy exploring the water too... so yes very important factors that are easily overlooked are knowing your venue and understanding the fishes behaviour and how they react to changes in their environment... that moves you from a 70 to a 90% IMO