ULTIMATE ANGLING - the Ultimate SA Fishing website
General Angling Topics => Hook, line and sinker - Tackle talk => Topic started by: DavePE on December 30, 2015, 07:53:31 AM
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Hi all,
I recently respooled my 3000 sized Shimano Symetre with 8kg Berkley Fireline. In two fishing sessions I've lost a Rapala x-rap walk and a Rapala Max Rap when my leader knot came loose. :unhap :unhap
I chalked up the first loss to a badly tied Yucatan knot. But then I took the time to tie a proper FG knot and it still managed to work itself loosing with an end result of my Max Rap currently floating somewhere in the Indian Ocean. The knot came undone after less than 30 casts. I was also using Mono as a leader both times, not fluro as it's a bit softer and easier to knot.
The braid is orange in colour and when I tie the knot a lot of the colouring comes off, I can see small particals all over my fingers when tightening the knot. This stuff wasn't cheap but it seems almost impossible to get a decent leader with it. If an FG knot doesn't work then I really don't know.
Has anyone else had a bad experience with this braid? I bought it because I thought it had a good reputation. Is it just a bad batch? Any ideas on how I could strenghten my leader knots?
Thank you.
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Dave I suspect that the Fireline has a waxy coating on it, which doesn't do well with knots in general, much like Nanofil and other waxed braids; especially in the small kg strengths. What I do to stop the slippage is use the 7 turn Uni to Fig 8, which is a stopper knot, where 2 knots butt up against each other. There's not much chance of slipping with these. It's very frustrating to find a knot that works though.
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This is the recommended knot from the Berkley website. Looks like a Doubled Albright knot (Modified Albright).
(http://www.berkley-fishing.co.uk/upload/video_info_tips/AllBrightSpecial_fullSize.jpg)
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Hi Reefman,
Thanks for the reply. I will try the not you posted, but this time I'll be sure to test it with lures I don't like... :creep:
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Dave I suspect that the Fireline has a waxy coating on it, which doesn't do well with knots in general, much like Nanofil and other waxed braids; especially in the small kg strengths. What I do to stop the slippage is use the 7 turn Uni to Fig 8, which is a stopper knot, where 2 knots butt up against each other. There's not much chance of slipping with these. It's very frustrating to find a knot that works though.
IMHO the best braid to Mono knot in the business :Like:
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I have fished fireline extensively and the 7 turn uni to figure 8 works brilliantly. Never had a single failure
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Uni/fig 8 Braid to leader knot
http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php?topic=73.0 (http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php?topic=73.0)
Whichever knot you try, test it properly before you cast with it. Put pressure on it and see if it slips.
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Dave, been thinking... maybe you should move on to using a Braid leader? Not sure that changing your knot will solve the problem.
Take a read through this:
http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php?topic=15598.0 (http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php?topic=15598.0)
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Thanks for those links Reefman. Is the "3 turn figure of 8" the same thing as a Centauri knot?
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Yes.
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I've used a variety of breaking strains in Fireline (only the crystal and smoke colours though) and had fantastic results. Just a question tho... How long is your leader? Are you casting through the guides? When I shortened my leader to cast only outside the tip guide, did I stop losing lures... regardless of the brand of braid.
I have had excellent results with FG knot in all brands of braid, including Nanofil.
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Hi FishStyx,
I was casting with a rather long leader which was going through the guides. So that definately could have played a role. I've never had a problem with Suffix though. What worries me is that the knot was working itself loose and this is with a properly done FG knot. I think it's a number of factors now that I've given it some more thought. It's a very thin braided line, with wax, tied to a thick leader (30 pounds), and the joining knot was going through the eyes on casting.
I'll use a shorter leader with the knot Reefman posted above and report back.
Thanks for all the help and suggestions so far.
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Dave, the FG is particularly susceptible to failure when casting through the guides because the knot works on the Chinese finger trap principle. It gets it's strength from constricting itself onto the leader line, and to do this, it's essential that the base of the knot (the point of the knot closest to the terminal tackle) must not move (or get pushed up) at all. If it does, the knot "releases" it's grip on the leader and continues sliding up the leader until the first few turns come off, then it's tickets. So casting through the guides, the first point of contact with the knot is at it's base and in the wrong direction for the integrity of the knot.
I do a lot of heavy popping with damned expensive lures, so I'm in the habit of checking the base of my FG regularly. If it looks slightly dodgy I re-tie but that's happened very seldom.
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If the fg is slipping I would say their is not enough tension when forming the knot, or not enough turns. I use the same fireline, 15 turns each way, tensioning every 3 turns, paying special to attention to the 1st few turns to make sure they are as tight as possible. If the problem persists try doing ten additional turns with the tag end only, over both leader and braid before the half hitches, and once again make sure these turns are tensioned properly. Also if the main braid line can do a single turn under these ten turns it helps as well, I also believe this eliminates any knot strength inconsistencies.
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This is the recommended knot from the Berkley website. Looks like a Doubled Albright knot (Modified Albright).
(http://www.berkley-fishing.co.uk/upload/video_info_tips/AllBrightSpecial_fullSize.jpg)
I use this knot, works great with long or short leaders, casting through the eyes no problem.
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Fire line is very thin great for casting not so great for knots!
I'd recommend the slim beauty knot you get a combination of a friction knot and a stopper knot that you can cast through the guides (provided they are not the new tiny Microguides)
The Yucatan I wouldn't recommend for this sort of line there's a good chance the braid will cut through the leader as its so thin, and although the FG is a great knot it's a pita to tie with ultralight braid. I'm not a big fan of the Albright I don't think its very strong and you always end up with the tag end of the leader facing forward which snags and rattles through the guides.
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I have fished fireline extensively and the 7 turn uni to figure 8 works brilliantly. Never had a single failure
:corrct: :corrct:
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Thanks again for all the suggestions. Going fishing this afternoon now that its finally cooled down a bit in PE. Will have this thread open on my phone with me. :uarocks
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The uni and figure of 8 knot held up incredibly well. I got my bucktail caught on a rock or some a sunken log so tighten my drag and pulled and it was my centuari knot I used to tie on my lure clip that snapped not the leader knot. Good to know that I can use Fireline with confidence in the future. Thanks again everyone for your help. :tkx: :uarocks