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OFFSHORE ANGLING => Jigging and Popping => Topic started by: John F on September 22, 2014, 01:18:44 PM

Title: Importance of color in poppers/stickbaits
Post by: John F on September 22, 2014, 01:18:44 PM

Calling on all the surface lures gurus here...

Are there any colors that really catch more fish than others? Or is it mainly the action of the lure?

Title: Re: Importance of color in poppers/stickbaits
Post by: REEFMAN on September 22, 2014, 01:30:57 PM

Think it's the action first and foremost, then the contrast created by the lure and it's surrounds... Red and white (being my favourite) providing good contrast in surface lures where the colour doesn't disappear.

Title: Re: Importance of color in poppers/stickbaits
Post by: Half-Pint on September 22, 2014, 01:40:50 PM

Quote from: REEFMAN on September 22, 2014, 01:30:57 PM

Think it's the action first and foremost, then the contrast created by the lure and it's surrounds... Red and white (being my favourite) providing good contrast in surface lures where the colour doesn't disappear.

What this chap said :Like:

I definitely think that some lures create a better contrast than others.

What I do find odd is when certain coloured lures are recommended by all the local anglers. Do they work well in that particular area or is it just that every Tom Dick and Harry is throwing them so more time in the water equals more results :dunno:

Title: Re: Importance of color in poppers/stickbaits
Post by: SAfish on September 22, 2014, 01:41:12 PM

I normally only throw plugs for Garrick and have found that I get more strikes on plugs that have a little flashy sticker on the side. Like Reefz said, the action is the most important but adding a little bling will also help.

Title: Re: Importance of color in poppers/stickbaits
Post by: Zetti on September 22, 2014, 02:02:21 PM

If the lure manufacturers only made one color lure people won't buy 5 or 10 of the same thing and the manufacturer won't make lots of $$$$$

When we fished Kilwa a couple years back the best popper by a mile out of the 100 we had there was a pale yellow cheapie, looked like a bleached  :mili:. Split in half it was hit so many times.

 

Title: Re: Importance of color in poppers/stickbaits
Post by: John F on September 22, 2014, 02:13:03 PM

Thanks chaps!

Definitely looking forward to Cam's input here...

Title: Re: Importance of color in poppers/stickbaits
Post by: SAfish on September 22, 2014, 02:16:35 PM

Quote from: John F on September 22, 2014, 02:13:03 PM

Thanks chaps!

Definitely looking forward to Cam's input here...

We not good enough?  (bat  :hyst: :hyst:

Title: Re: Importance of color in poppers/stickbaits
Post by: John F on September 22, 2014, 02:25:15 PM

Quote from: SAfish on September 22, 2014, 02:16:35 PM

Quote from: John F on September 22, 2014, 02:13:03 PM

Thanks chaps!

Definitely looking forward to Cam's input here...

We not good enough?  (bat :hyst: :hyst:

Nope!  :crzy

Just wondering what those middle East  :gt: think about colors....

Title: Re: Importance of color in poppers/stickbaits
Post by: sardinella on September 22, 2014, 03:23:54 PM

Color can be the difference between a follow and a strike.
The action can attract many more fish than we realize but its the appearance that will provoke a hit.

Water clarity and time of day makes a difference.

Title: Re: Importance of color in poppers/stickbaits
Post by: REEFMAN on September 22, 2014, 03:28:49 PM

Quote from: sardinella on September 22, 2014, 03:23:54 PM

Color can be the difference between a follow and a strike.
The action can attract many more fish than we realize but its the appearance that will provoke a hit.

Water clarity and time of day makes a difference.

Definitely! Good post.
Overcast and dark---> darker lures (greens, purples); Sunny and bright----> colourful bright lures (white, red/white, orange/yellow, pink)

Title: Re: Importance of color in poppers/stickbaits
Post by: Toppie on September 22, 2014, 03:43:48 PM

How do we know fish see in colour?

Been said antelope only see in grey scale.

Title: Re: Importance of color in poppers/stickbaits
Post by: Kent on September 22, 2014, 03:47:02 PM

 :hnthnt: ...let me chip in with my humble amateur opinion...My experience over the past 9 years...Is this....On any given mornings session....Ive always started the AM with a one of 2 spoons in my bag....Its a ritual for me.....Often ...Ive had NO nods and then I put on a tighter pushing spoon and get the nod....continue with that spoon and get some more nods...I then go to the first spoon I started with and NO nods again....Then immediatley switch back to the tighter spoon and get the nods again!!...Soo.....my opinion...Its ALL action!!!...Different water conditions calls for different action lures......A certain spot here on the EL coast called Cove Rock...the leeries every November almost 99% ONLY take spoon and not surface plugs....

Title: Re: Importance of color in poppers/stickbaits
Post by: Seventenths on September 22, 2014, 03:47:31 PM

When all else fails go back to red and white.. It always makes me feel better if not the fish! I heard fish cannot see UV spectrum.. would make sense underwater but would make a whole lure/tackle ranges useless..... and means I have prob upset a lot of fishing gear marketing guys.... :blush:

Title: Re: Importance of color in poppers/stickbaits
Post by: Seventenths on September 22, 2014, 03:52:00 PM

University of Wiki....Fish[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tetrachromacy&action=edit&section=3)]The goldfish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldfish) (Carassius auratus auratus)^[7] and zebrafish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebrafish) (Danio rerio)^[8] are examples of tetrachromats, containing cone cells sensitive for red, green, blue and ultraviolet light

Title: Re: Importance of color in poppers/stickbaits
Post by: John F on September 22, 2014, 03:52:52 PM

The thing is... with poppers it's about noise and splash (turbulence).... if one imposes a continuous action, there will be bubbles and turbulence around the popper.... is there time for the fish to actually assess the color and decide if is it yummy!?

With stickbaits.... similar, but typical action is pause-retrieve-pause!?

Title: Re: Importance of color in poppers/stickbaits
Post by: Kent on September 22, 2014, 03:55:51 PM

 :hnthnt: ..To go one step further...Ive stood shoulder to shoulder with a mate gooing the same spoon in the same area....landing about a meter apart and he gets the 2 fish and I get zippo!!....Different pressure on the retrieve???.....different speed???....vibration down the line???....Yeah!!....lets not forget .....its a whole alien world a meter under the surface of that salty stuff!!!!

Title: Re: Importance of color in poppers/stickbaits
Post by: SAfish on September 22, 2014, 04:00:45 PM

Quote from: Seventenths on September 22, 2014, 03:52:00 PM

University of Wiki....Fish[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tetrachromacy&action=edit&section=3)]The goldfish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldfish) (Carassius auratus auratus)^[7] and zebrafish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebrafish) (Danio rerio)^[8] are examples of tetrachromats, containing cone cells sensitive for red, green, blue and ultraviolet light

I have been thinking about this for a long time. Fish can see UV light but we can't. Maybe it will be a good idea to have a look at your lures under a UV light and see what they see. It will also help to check out the different bait fish under a UV light and try and find something similar.  :hnthnt:

Title: Re: Importance of color in poppers/stickbaits
Post by: Kent on September 22, 2014, 04:16:02 PM

Quote from: SAfish on September 22, 2014, 04:00:45 PM

Quote from: Seventenths on September 22, 2014, 03:52:00 PM

University of Wiki....Fish[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tetrachromacy&action=edit&section=3)]The goldfish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldfish) (Carassius auratus auratus)^[7] and zebrafish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebrafish) (Danio rerio)^[8] are examples of tetrachromats, containing cone cells sensitive for red, green, blue and ultraviolet light

I have been thinking about this for a long time. Fish can see UV light but we can't. Maybe it will be a good idea to have a look at your lures under a UV light and see what they see. It will also help to check out the different bait fish under a UV light and try and find something similar.  :hnthnt:

:cry: ...You telling me Im wasting all that elbow grease shining my spoons????

Title: Re: Importance of color in poppers/stickbaits
Post by: chrisquinton on September 22, 2014, 04:54:42 PM

The UV check is great, but I dont worry much with surface lures at all.

The only part of a surface lure a fish should usually see is the belly and partially the sides, depending on that lure's action.
For such a lure, colour MAY be a consideration. As stated below, action, and then shape are the critical factors of a surface lure. Thereafter (and probably an effectivity weighting of less than 20%), colour. And particularly, the underside and sides of the lure (unless we're catching birds).

The rules thereafter are:
dark silhouetting colours (even black) for pre-sunrise, late pm, darker overcast days.
brighter colours for brighter days, clearer waters.
I will almost always fish a solid white colour belly, with silver, and/or pink. I have experienced just as much success with a completely transparent popper as with a solid coloured one. Our success is often skewed by fishing one lure more than another.

Fish all your lures, especially the ones you never had faith in. You might just surprise yourself...

Title: Re: Importance of color in poppers/stickbaits
Post by: Seventenths on September 22, 2014, 04:58:38 PM

More wisdom from the university of Wiki...
 
Vertebrate animals such as tropical fish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_fish) and birds sometimes have more complex color vision systems than humans; thus the many subtle colors they exhibit generally serve as direct signals for other fish or birds, and not to signal mammals.^[

Title: Re: Importance of color in poppers/stickbaits
Post by: Seventenths on September 22, 2014, 05:02:11 PM

More mumbo jumbo.. but interesting to note fish see colour better that we do!!!
 
Color vision table

Name of state	Number of cone cells (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cone_cell)	Approx. number of colors perceived	Porters
Monochromacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monochromacy)	1	100	marine mammals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_mammals), owl monkey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owl_monkey), Australian sea lion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_sea_lion), achromat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achromatopsia) humans
Dichromacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dichromacy)	2	10,000	most terrestrial non-primate mammals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammal), color blind (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_blindness) primates
Trichromacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichromacy)	3	1 million	most primates, especially great apes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_apes) (such as humans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human)), marsupials (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsupial), some insects (such as honeybees (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeybee))
Tetrachromacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrachromacy)	4	100 million	most reptiles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reptiles), amphibians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphibians), birds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bird) and insects (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insects), rarely humans
Pentachromacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentachromacy)	5	10 billion	some insects (specific species of butterflies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly)), some birds (pigeons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigeon) for instance)

Title: Re: Importance of color in poppers/stickbaits
Post by: Seventenths on September 22, 2014, 05:08:19 PM

Note fish fall mostly in Category 4 Tetrachromacy and mantis shrimps (one of the most complex eyes in the animal kingdom fall in cat 5 and the are believed to have such complex eyes for spotting prey and predators... and can see over 10billion colours...
more wiki...
The mantis shrimp has one of the most elaborate visual systems ever discovered.^[11]
The midband region of its eye is made up of six rows of specialised ommatidia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ommatidium). Four rows carry up to 16 different photoreceptor pigments, 12 for colour sensitivity, others for colour filtering. The vision of the mantis shrimp is so precise that it can perceive both polarised light (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarised_light) and multispectral (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multispectral) images.^[12] Their eyes (both mounted on mobile stalks and capable of moving independently of each other) are similarly variably coloured and are considered to be the most complex eyes in the animal kingdom.^[13]
Each compound eye is made up of up to ten thousand ommatidia of the apposition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apposition_eye) type. Each eye consists of two flattened hemispheres separated by six parallel rows of specialised ommatidia, collectively called the midband, which divides the eye into three regions. This configuration enables mantis shrimp to see objects with three parts of the same eye. In other words, each eye possesses trinocular vision and depth perception (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_perception).

Title: Re: Importance of color in poppers/stickbaits
Post by: Seventenths on September 22, 2014, 05:10:31 PM

so Marco... I think colour matters in the great puddle.... just my 2c...

Title: Re: Importance of color in poppers/stickbaits
Post by: Toppie on September 22, 2014, 06:24:10 PM

During a presentation and in conversation with one of the most successful Marlin and Sailfish Captains in the world, Brad Philips of Guatemala, on this very same subject he answered that a hungry fish hovering at 40/50 meters or deeper cannot possibly see the colour of a lure. It instinctively decides if the lure is catchable prey and sets off to devour it, and when it reaches the lure and having spent the energy to reach it, doesn't change its mind and decides its blue he feels like only pink fish today.

His only opinion was that the silhouette must under prevailing conditions distinguish the lure as potential food.

Title: Re: Importance of color in poppers/stickbaits
Post by: Cam Mundy on September 22, 2014, 06:47:18 PM

I get asked this all the time and I always say dark lure for dark days and bright lures for bright days if that doesn't work do the opposite. you will have days when the fish key in on certain colours by for the most part if they are hungry they will eat whats in front of them.
I like my stickbaits with a a lot of "flash" on the sides that catches and reflects the light when the lure dives and rolls as you work it.  But colour means nothing if you don't work the lure well its all in the action you achieve my favorite stick baits are the ones that float in a nose up attitude between 45 and 70 degrees, the secret with these lures is having slack in your line before you sweep your rod the slack causes extra drag on the line which in turn drags the lures nose under the water where it will roll from side to side before surfacing nose first again.
A mistake many people make is working stick baits to fast big and slow is the way to go and if a fish comes up and starts tracking your lure you need to keep your nerve and continue what you where doing if you speed up you will break the action or pull the lure out the fishes mouth, when you have mastered your lure then you can speed up to elicit a strike.

With poppers colour plays less of a role I generally fish pink, black and natural colours.

My favorite colour is pink if anyone was wondering lol

Title: Re: Importance of color in poppers/stickbaits
Post by: John F on September 22, 2014, 06:49:12 PM

Some tips from Dr Greg Vignal:

* Use dark colors at night. This may seem strange to the novice, but from experience it definitely works. When you think about it, all colors appear to us at night to be black or shades of dark grey. Usually when we see something at night it's a shadow, and dark colors give the best shadow. Also, fish usually attack lures from below at night and during low light conditions. This is because it maximises the benefit of any limited light available. Under these conditions a dark lure throws the best silhouette and is therefore the most visible. Black, dark blue and purple are good choices at this time of day.

* During winter or periods when there is lots of particulate material in the water (such as silt or algae), reds and oranges are the first colors to be filtered out. Under these conditions, lures with plenty of yellow, green or blue appear the most colorful below the surface. Fluorescent yellow and greens are also worth a shot.

* Red, orange, yellow, silver and metallic colors are most intense during bright summer days in clear, shallow water. Having said that, metallic finishes have some benefits at depth because they have a tendency to create flash, even under relatively low light conditions. Mind you, all colors are visible under these bright conditions and if the fish are actively feeding on baitfish that are blue in color, then that's the color to use.

* Color choice is a moot point if you are deep trolling using a downrigger or paravane, particularly under low light conditions or if the water is colored or dirty. The most important factors under these conditions are lure size, shape and action.

* When fishing topwater lures, color is far less important than size, shape and action. A fish coming up below a surface or shallow running lure has the light behind it, making the lure appear grey or black. Try it for yourself - hold a fluorescent lure up to the sun and view it from below. Black and dark colors remain the best for surface lures because they throw a great silhouette.

* Red and orange lures come into their own in tannin stained waters, as do fluorescent hues.

Title: Re: Importance of color in poppers/stickbaits
Post by: John F on September 22, 2014, 06:55:54 PM

Ok,

So for may own benefit and after all the science and expert adivice, this is what I kept:

* Action is key;
* Dark days -> dark lures ; bright days -> bright lures
* Color in poppers is less important than in stickbaits
* White, pink and black / dark colors seem to work best
* Stickbaits should have flashy sides

Title: Re: Importance of color in poppers/stickbaits
Post by: Cam Mundy on September 22, 2014, 07:00:13 PM

By the way I took my own advice and bought a Saragosa 8k and loaded it with PE6 on a stiff spinning rod I'll let you know how it goes!

Title: Re: Importance of color in poppers/stickbaits
Post by: jball7204 on September 22, 2014, 07:55:12 PM

Aha, when I think of the lures we threw last summer that all makes sense, although we never think about it as its happening. Poppers dark and flash, Stickbaits mostly white, yellow or pink with flash on sides (colour depending on water cloudiness) and spoons in the clearer water.

Thanks for this thread, reminds us to think a bit when it's slow....

Title: Re: Importance of color in poppers/stickbaits
Post by: Kent on September 23, 2014, 08:16:56 AM

 :hnthnt: ACTION...ACTION...ACTION...... :fshn:

Title: Re: Importance of color in poppers/stickbaits
Post by: andrewpalang on September 23, 2014, 10:15:52 AM

I must echo pretty much what Cam has said. Poppers wise, I believe purely in the action and noise created. If a fish has decided to go for it, it will go for it. Obviously everyone has their preference in colours, I prefer red and white and fish almost exclusively with this, sometimes changing to a blue or pink. Stickbaits however are slightly different, a great action is obviously needed to get the attention but also like to have a great colour. A bit of flash always helps to attract attention. I prefer fishing stickbaits in cleaner water as you are relying more on action and colour than noise. Colours for stickbaits, here I am with Cam, Pink has always been a winner but also caught on every other colour we have!

Title: Re: Importance of color in poppers/stickbaits
Post by: Kent on September 23, 2014, 12:31:51 PM

 :hnthnt: ...Colour AND action....

Title: Re: Importance of color in poppers/stickbaits
Post by: kp11 on September 30, 2014, 02:04:39 PM

Last year in Mozambique my brother and I would have sold our soul for more pink lures we only had four to start with. None of the other colours were working half as well as the pink not even red and white.

Title: Re: Importance of color in poppers/stickbaits
Post by: chrisquinton on September 30, 2014, 03:01:51 PM

It is not a terrible idea to buy a couple colours of the stick-on colored flash.
If you desperate, for a couple rands, you can convert almost any lure to a colour of your choice in a few seconds.
Its also not permanent..