ULTIMATE ANGLING - the Ultimate SA Fishing website
General Angling Topics => Casting => Topic started by: David Taylor on August 29, 2014, 12:14:49 PM
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Hi All
I am finally frustrated to the extent where I am prepared to pay for casting lessons. I learned the hard way while learning to fly cast that an instructor will save you lots of frustration. I have spent many hours trying to work out why I cannot cast further than 80m with a 14ft 6 - 8oz exage and a torium30 with the spool as loose as it can go with out it being able to move side to side. I can cast a 10ft 50 - 100g Shimano vengeance with a tin spoon exactly the same distance as my surf setup. I can feel I am not loading the rod properly but cannot work out what I am doing wrong. I need someone to watch what I am doing and tell me what I am not doing correctly. Does anyone know of a casting instructor in CT, Somerset West, Hermanus or anywhere around there? And can anyone give me a rate per hour?
Thanks :)
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First of all are you using an 8oz sinker? And the second thing is I like to loosen the spool just enough to detect side to side play on the spool. Third thing, how long are your drop from rod tip to sinker? One last thing how far do you put your hand apart. One hand on the reel and how far up is the other hand?
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I have played around with sinkers from 5 - 9oz. My spool today had a very small amount of side to side movement which I only noticed once I had finished casting. Line length I have varied from literally 1,5ft to 14ft. My best casts are with a very short length of line out which means something must be wrong because most decent casters have at least 1,5m. I am stumped.
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For most guys the drop should be around your lenght or half of the rod. Does the sinker waight change the distance you achieve? Are you casting your sinker out of a static position or do you swing it to the back or side or something? Do you cast with a nice high bow or is the cast flat and straight? Sorry for all the questions, trying to work out where you can change and adapt a bit.
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David, i suggest you make a video of your cast , upload it for us to have a look at w;k
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pieta you are on the money bud. In short it's about feeling, you take what the other guys say and put it to practice. I would go out there and through the living *&^% out of the set up and make my own mind up on my limitation's on how to cast.
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It is difficult to help someone if you can't watch them in person. I have had many guys asking for help and 80% of the time it was something small to adapt. The other 20% was guys using the wrong setup and the best of all. You prove to them that the achieve beter distances with softer or shorter rods and they still stick to the longer stiffer rods. The moment one gets beter distances with evier waight the problem lies in the loading. It can also be a reel set to tight but most of the time it's not loading the rod till full potential. Having a video will help but to get it sorted out we will need more than one. The other thing, if you are out casting, see if you can break your rod by casting it as hard as you can. I have also seen guys complaining about distance and when they start casting the put in less effort as when spanking the kids. Rods are alot stronger as one think. Just don't drop them or pull them to hard but give it your all on every cast. I can also add that timing makes a huge diffrence. A rod tip rushing thru the air like when it does not have a lead on is one of the indicators that the timing is out.
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I have an Exage with a Speedmaster on and get quite a good distance on it. Have been asked by one of the guys how i get that distance because he also struggle with the Exage.
Unfortunately the Exage is quite a stiff rod and a bit difficult to load. I cast a bit unconventional, none of the half a rod or your length back drop. I hate a long back drop, mine about 70-80cm. I use the heavy tip with a 6oz sinker.
I am due back in country by mid Oct, might be slightly earlier, depending our operation. When i am back in town, we can go and have a look if you want.
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I assumed from your question that you are around CPT, see you are in Greyton, which is a bit of a drive. See if there are guys from Hermanus around, that you can hook up with.
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I have taken some videos but I have no idea how to post them. Please help :)
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I have taken some videos but I have no idea how to post them. Please help :)
try here... http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php?board=51.0 (http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php?board=51.0)
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I have taken some videos but I have no idea how to post them. Please help :)
More specifically http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php?topic=5638.0 (http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php?topic=5638.0)
Obviously you need to upload your vid to youtube first w;k
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MVI 0167 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Jd8xqufDDs&feature=youtu.be#)
MVI 0168 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhayaOmEteo&feature=youtu.be#)
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Nice videos David.
If I can give you some humble advice....
If straight ahead of you, (where you're casting), is 12 o'clock, at the moment, you're casting from 5'oclock on your backswing (this is a short arc). Move the backswing to 6 and then to 7 and then to 8 (behind you), slowly increasing the length of the arc of your swing,.. the longer the arc, the more speed the tip of the rod will generate. So if you increase your arc by 25%, your distance should increase by the same.
Something else you can change... at the moment you're casting directly overhead (rod is 90deg to the ground)... try bring the rod slightly to the side on the follow through, more like a 60 deg angle. Again, this lengthens the arc of the tip of the rod and should get you better distance.
Otherwise, you've got a pretty cool action.
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im no pro caster but ive been fishing shimanos for a few years.
1. i hate the torium 30 compared to my speedmasters and take it out very seldom.
2. I come over my shoulder like you do, not in an arc coz then i cast skew and people tend to get upset.
3. Look at your video, you bring the rod over great but from past vertical you slow down. Pull the bottom arm down quicker and push with the top one, in other words follow through. it will give you the extra 30m you are looking for.
4. i have about a 1.5m drop, swing it a little bit to the back by pushing your bodyweight a little backwards then lean into the cast with your bodyweight when the sinker is about 30 to 45 degrees to the rod, push forward and follow through. This is how i've taught myself. Its not a pendulum or off the ground, it loads the rods i have ok enough and gets the bait where i need it to be most of the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm1c9hEmYlE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm1c9hEmYlE) a youtube video of one of the best casters i know. watch his bodyweight transfer, speed and followthrough.
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Thanks for the advice. The weather isnt great today so I will go try again as soon as the weather is nice
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David, Marthin is right, Henning Venter is one of the best Surfcaster's in the business, if not the best.
Let's compare you and him....
In the pic below, you're starting out from the 5 o'clock position, making for a very short arc. Whereas Henning is starting out from 8 o'clock (sinker ringed in red.)
You need to practice starting out firstly at 6 o'clock, then gradually move it round further as you become more proficient in your direction (takes a LOT of Practice and timing).
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Then let's look at the arc of the swing....
Look how much flatter Henning swings... rather than straight overhead.
Also have a look at his left elbow through the cast, it's still quite high, whereas yours has already collapsed to the side. By keeping the elbow high, it allows you to pull back with the left hand on the follow through...
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Wow thanks I think that will help a lot. Thanks for going to so much effort to help. I really appreciate it.
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You're welcome bru.
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All of you guys have valid points. I've been thru the clips now a few times. Timing is one of your problems. One can hear the reel starting to spin befor the rod tip has come thru. The other thing that I would change is the working of your hands. Your left hand works quite nice downwards but can be abit quicker. Your right hand or arm stay bended thru the hole cast. You need to push it more upwards quicker while the other arm pulls down. This action will give you moresinker speel and load on the rod. If you can get that right arm working a bit more you will already see a diffrence. I would slip your top hand a bit down closer to the reel, not mutch, aboute two fingers. This will also help gaining more shoulder power. The father the hand apart the weeker the shoulder power. Try and hang on to the spool for just a split second longer. It will help loading the rod better and will get the timing closer to the real thing. My 2c, even if you don't agree just try it, you have nothing to loose. Keep us posted on your progress.
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I do agree. I am mostly a fly fisherman and so I have learned how important timing is. If I am releasing the spool too early then all of the energy from the loaded rod is going into making the spool spin rather than propelling the sinker. Thanks I will definitely try that. No doubt my first few casts will plough into the ground in front of me but hopefully with a bit of practice it will come right. Practice seems to fix all things except if you practice the wrong thing. After I had been fly fishing for 5 years I could cast perfectly, apart from not being able to double haul. I spent more than 60 hours on my lawn just getting the timing of the hauls right to the extent where I could cast a full line occasionally. I can safely say that those 60 hours of practice were some of the best hours I have ever spent for my fishing. Kinda hoping I will be able to cast 120m by Feb. I will try practice all the things everyone here has said. If I hadn't asked I would still be practicing the wrong thing and that would be highly frustrating.
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David,
Your swing is too short to give the rod time to get loaded.
You will have to replace your sinker, so that you can rotate larger than 180 degrees.
The line of your feet placement and rod should almost be perpendicular.
With this new feet placement, do this very slowly, and practise, drag the sinker slightly before you swing to get it in motion to make it easier to get used to. i got it right like after the fifth time.
When doing the swing, replace your leftfoot so your body can pivot around it.
Then after you have a feel for the new swing then you can change all the small things.
Some stuff to remember,
Always make your drop the same length.
Hold your rod tightly.Dont let your hands leave the rod.
Video your casting to spot errors.
Dont worry if you cast skew in the beginning.
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Hi David
Here's two of Henning's casting video clip's. This Guy cast easy 180m + with 0.55mm line ! The best advice
that I have for you contact a Angling club and ask them for help or better ask them if you can come and see them
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm1c9hEmYlE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm1c9hEmYlE)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ_gtXAIbX0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ_gtXAIbX0)
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The bottom one is wikus.... he also makes lead disappear.
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The bottom one is wikus.... he also makes lead disappear.
Yup, and his casting action is poor IMO. His distance comes from pure brute upper body strength. If Wikus could transfer weight properly, he'd be unbeatable.
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this is a few years back, i think he's changed it a bit. He klapped a 175 that day.
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Please help there was a video a long time ago here on the site of this guy that cast close to 300 meters if I can remember correctly how can I find it?
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willie that is long distance casting, a bit different to our rs casting, you looking for danny moeskops
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Thanks Marthin
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It's in this article Willie.... http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php?topic=9711.0 (http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php?topic=9711.0)
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Thanks Reefz find it I have some guys that is into fishing here at my work and they can not believe that people can cast that far :hehe: so I just had to show them. Sorry for the highjack.